by cofty 42 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
metatron did you read my post 202 above?
the Bible says clearly that homosexual activity is against God's design. I would indicate that to young folk
All of us who were born-in to the borg were indoctrinated as children. How can you not care about what schools teach the next generation?
Dealing with big questions like the economy and dealing with bad teaching is not an either/or question. A govt ought to be able to find time to do both.
Lets beat down fundies of every ilk, bring it on!
If the most popular boys name in Britain is "Mohammed", do you think you might have a much bigger cultural problem than a few nutball Christians?
Why do you see the name Mohammed as a cultural problem? And why do you adopt an apologist position for creationists? And why do you think Brits need to be, or are, frightened of Muslims?
Curious minds want to know.
I don't think Creationism should be taught in schools. The conservatives have the right idea to stop it.
It's just plain silly.
The Oracle
If I call them 'nutballs', exactly how am I an apologist?
You are entirely missing the point about Priorities and Distractions. When Republicans (in the US) brought up gay marriage, it was a political distraction (that mostly worked, for a while). Creationism is a distraction in a nation faced with potential financial collapse.
As to "indoctrination", you already have that and don't realize it. When a reptile like Dawkins can apply pressure to prevent Richard Milton from publishing a criticism of Darwinism, you already have a problem with academic freedom.
I believe that Creationism and Darwinism are both creation myths. And I think the sort of emotional panic amidst elites about Creationism is nonsense.
And Muslims? Are you making a joke?
http://borjas.typepad.com/the_borjas_blog/2007/09/assimilation-of.html
You have a group that lacks respect for democracy, women's rights and human rights. They don't assimilate well. Britain's tradition of the rule of law and freedoms may be destroyed by economic collapse and a ever growing Muslim subculture that is hostile to Western values.
Again, PRIORITIES! Beating down fundies while turning a blind eye to the rise of a hostile, anti-feminist subculture in your midst is a recipe for disaster.
metatron
When a reptile like Dawkins can apply pressure to prevent Richard Milton from publishing a criticism of Darwinism, you already have a problem with academic freedom. - metatron
Do you have some background on this please.
Dawkins a "reptile"? That's foolish. You may disagree with his atheism but as a biologist he is outstanding. How much of his work have you read?
Meta - to be clear I don't think creationism is even a distraction in the UK - the OP makes it clear this was a 2 line verbal comment made in a press interview - its not exactly inflaming the nation.*
having said that it does offer a useful proxy for the role of religion and religious advocates in education
did you read the link I posted?
If you are new to the subject of fundamentalist influence on education and what their long game is I recommend http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/magazine/14texbooks-t.html as a starting viewpoint.
these are not just a few 'nutballs' - they are playing a large and growing role in what our children are reading in their school textbooks
The UK, like every other democracy, will have to differentiate between malign and benign religious influences and enact policy and legislation accordingly. "May you live in interesting times' may yet prove to be the curse it was intended to be.
* being an ex-JW discussion board it would be reasonable to expect more religious topics to come up than in a more generalized forum.
here's yet_another_example of why I care what Christian crackpots 'believe': it may start with creationism, but it sure doesn't end there....
Campaigners in Malawi say homophobic legislation is driving gays and lesbians underground, making them hard to reach with information that could protect them from Aids."In Malawi it's a complete witch-hunt that denies the people the right to self-determination," said Phumi Mtetwa, executive director of the Lesbian and Gay Equality Project, based in South Africa. "We are deeply concerned about this spate of homophobia across the continent."
Mtetwa said the recent series of incidents was no accident but rather the work of US evangelical Christian groups. "It's very well calculated. It's exploding at the moment but it's been happening for a year and a half. We have proof of American evangelical churches driving the religious fundamentalism in Uganda."
The Ugandan parliament is considering a bill that would impose life imprisonment as the minimum punishment for anyone convicted of having gay sex. If the accused person is HIV positive or a serial offender, or a "person of authority" over the other partner, or if the "victim" is under 18, a conviction will result in the death penalty.
Members of the public are obliged to report any homosexual activity to police within 24 hours or risk up to three years in jail.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/16/malawi-operation-against-gays-lesbians
You have a group that lacks respect for democracy, women's rights and human rights. They don't assimilate well. Britain's tradition of the rule of law and freedoms may be destroyed by economic collapse and a ever growing Muslim subculture that is hostile to Western values. Again, PRIORITIES! Beating down fundies while turning a blind eye to the rise of a hostile, anti-feminist subculture in your midst is a recipe for disaster.
Christian Evangelicals are remarkably similar to Fundamental Islamists it seems- your words describe both groups equally accurately.
Dealing with these type of groups whilst preserving religious freedom is a big challenge - any ideas Metatron?
How much Dawkins have I read? Enough to know that he's a reptile. Like most elites these days, Freedom of speech applies to him and not others who think Darwinism is a myth - and it is he who referred to Milton as "stupid" and "loony" and so forth ( Shattering The Myths of Darwinism, pg 268).
Comparing Britain to an African nation is only relevant if you are discussing nations headed to bankruptcy. Come to think of it, those such nations are a good example of what may happen economically if the real PRIORITIES aren't addressed.
And .......comparing fundies to Muslims - who fight against education for women by killing them, beating them or throwing acid in their face or burning down female schools - is foolish. Nor do any Fundie types I have ever heard of practice honor killings of their daughters as a religious habit. If you know any women who wear makeup, are they accosted or yelled at by strangers as 'whore" in predominantly Christian neighborhoods? In Britain? And Muslims?
What would happen if a Christian leader advised husbands to beat their wives? Would the reaction to a Muslim Iman earn the same controversy? Is the difference explained by cowardice?
Can Hollywood people freely condemn or satirize Jesus? Are they willing to do the same with Mohammed? Why the difference? What are they afraid of ?
And assimilation : Do Fundies commonly assimilate all the time? As they grow mature? As their kids drift away? The answer is yes. How about Muslims - even after 50 years, as the study I cited points out. Which is safer------ being an 'apostate' in Christendom or an Ex-Muslim within any Muslim community? Which is more likely to get you murdered?
The NY Times article about the US founders means little. The Founders were plainly influenced by Deism but had no problem with the notion of God as Architect or Designer. A great nation ( until recently, at least) developed by Creationists who rejected a personally involved God. End of story.
Christians have always been stuck with the command to "love your enemies and pray for those that persecute you". Although such a standard is widely ignored, it's always there to nag the hateful in Christendom. Show me any equal command in Islam..............
metatron
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