It's just the Glasgoo way, WE'LL SET ABOUT YE!!!
British Tories pledge to stop creationism in school
by cofty 42 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
TastingFreedom
According to JWs, this must be a sign that the end is around the corner... imagine, they are probably thinking.. The Beast is turning against Great Babylon (the whore). Ohhh... how scary!!!!
-
cofty
How much Dawkins have I read? Enough to know that he's a reptile
That sounds like an evasion of the question. Have you read even one of his biology books in its entirety? The Selfish Gene, The Blind Watchmaker, Unweaving the Rainbow, Climbing Mount Improbable, The Ancestor's Tale. These are outstanding works of real science made accessible for the general public.
How about other popular biology writers like Jerry Coyne's "Why Evolution is True" or Neil Shubin's "Your Inner Fish"? An exceptional book on fossils and geology is Donald Prothero's "Evolution, What the fossils say and why it matters"
Evolution is the most elegant theory, to deny it is to reject multiple interconnected fields of science. The creationst movement have never contributed a single thing to science and yet they want to teach it in the science classroom. If we are going to allow the history deniers to fill children's minds with fairy stories like creationism why don't we go the whole way and teach them about the wonders of astrology, ESP, dowsing and homeopathy?
Richard Milton is a loony. Let him publish his nonsense in books and websites if he wishes but Dawkins was right to protest about his ignorance being published in the Times Higher Education Supplement masquerading as science.
In chapter 10 of his book "Shattering the Myths of Darwinism" Milton asserts that there isn't a single transitional fossil and specifically that there is a complete lack of transitional whale fossils. Short of the old, "its only a theory" or "why do we still have monkeys?" chestnuts it would be difficult to imagine a more foolish statement. Levels of ignorance of this level should not be published in a serious journal.
The NY Times article about the US founders means little.
Did you read besty's link to the article in the NY Times on the control the christian right have gained on the Texas board of education and the effect that has on education nationally or did you just see the picture and headline?
(Pat) Robertson’s protégé, Ralph Reed, once said, “I would rather have a thousand school-board members than one president and no school-board members” —
Fundies, christian and muslim, have a very strong desire to pollute our children's education with their ignorance. It matters.
-
slimboyfat
The Blind Watchmaker was the book that convinced me evolution is true. That was about ten years ago now.
-
metatron
Straw men, ad hominem attacks and unwarranted assumptions. Not a single word in rebuttal to points made about the threats of Muslim culture.
Not a word about the real threat of national bankruptcy and its aftereffects. Not a word about real priorities.
Yes, Dawkins is a skilled writer and scientist. And he is a reptile, regardless of the rest. In real debates, as with Ben Stein, he can be very nervous and shaky amid a withering cross examination. Justly so. His technical arguments against a personal God are sound. His self extension into matters of religion and culture is the work of a fool, speaking well out of his expertise.
Australia proves evolution is true. Unless you ignore this past sentence, that should end your straw men arguments. I disagree with Creationism and Darwinism, not Evolution in general. And there are some transitional fossils.
You don't seem to understand the nature of freedom. I guess when you are surrounded by an all invasive nanny state headed for financial tragedy, thinking outside the surrounding culture can be difficult. I will slow it down for you.
Scientists should not be banning or pressuring the media to suppress contrary ideas. They are entitled to their opinions of what is ignorance and not entitled to thuggish activity in being self appointed Science Police. Astrology? Homeopathy? Bring it on! Argue with it. Debate it openly in public discourse.
When Science Thugs suppressed Velikovsky being published, they were wrong to do so. Likewise, with the Dawkins arrogance in suppressing Milton. And likewise with recent exposure of suppression of contrary opinion in peer review of global warming.
Suppressing contrary opinion, under the arrogant banner of deciding what the public 'needs to know' is wrong. Dawkins has no monopoly on truth, nor does Milton.
And one more thing............
Let's consider the silly assumption of 'truth' and 'ignorance' and 'honesty' in an atheistic context. It is tiresome to hear these words repeated endlessly in a godless context without considering that they have no absolute meaning therein. As Sartre said, if God doesn't exist, anything is possible. Are lies always bad? Is truth inherently good? Is ignorance to be avoided at all costs? Says who? When? Always? Why?
That's the advantage of freedom: let the people decide amidst unsuppressed choices, with little restriction. Let them decide what is practical for them and their happiness.
Jefferson ( the greatest of the Founding Fathers, in my opinion) pledged eternal hostility over tyranny over the mind of man.
I agree with him.
metatron
-
besty
Not a single word in rebuttal to points made about the threats of Muslim culture.
check the subject line again. start your own thread if you want to talk about the threat of Muslim culture. this one is about 'nutball' Christians.
-
slimboyfat
metatron, making sure children are not taught nonsense during their education is hardly an affront to free speech.
It's very cynical how the churches now wish to promote their superstitions under the banner of free speech. How much freedom did they allow for the airing of alternative views back in the day when the churches had real power over communities? They are rather late and unconvincing converts to the notion of free speech if you ask me.
-
cofty
Astrology? Homeopathy? Bring it on! Argue with it. Debate it openly in public discourse.
There is no shortage of debate on these things. The problem is that those who wish to promote pseudo-science consistently fail to produce any actual evidence to support their magic. The same goes for creationism and ID, where is the science? But as besty pointed out that's not the topic. My point isn't that vague is it? My objection is to the teaching of quackery in the classroom.
That's the advantage of freedom: let the people decide amidst unsuppressed choices, with little restriction. Let them decide what is practical for them and their happiness.
I so wish my teachers had had such an enlightened view.
3x4=12 does it? Who says? Bloody maths facists! All those hours learning boring multiplication tables, what about my freedom I would have been much happier if every sum added up to 42 its my favourite number.
Anyway I don't believe in god so who knows what 3x4 equals? Without god 3x4 has no absolute answer. Does it always equal 12? Says who? When? Always? Why?
Multiplication tables amount to tyranny of the mind.
"we don't need no education,
we don't need no thought control
no dark sarcasm in the classroom
teachers leave those kids alone ...." -
metatron
The straw men just keep on coming, don't they? Clearly, the whole matter is as simple as rejecting grade school math.
Read Feyerbend. He understood the anarchic reality behind scientific research. No one knows where free inquiry might lead, least of all narrow minded academics.
Of course, you're not going to get much evidence for creationism, ID or much else if you have to fear losing tenure or other sanctions by the Science Police. And if someone puts out a movie on the subject (Expelled), don't be suprised if critics write lengthy 'refutations' without ever watching the actual movie! Ask Halston Arp or O'Bockris or Randall Mills about what wonders might exist against the dead hand of Official Science Patrolmen.
By all means, suppress creationism. Doing so can give you a nice warm feeling inside - while pensioners burn books to keep warm in their homes, while you wonder how your life savings disappeared, while WW2 vets weep that they sacrificed for nothing, while your doctor tells you that you will be 'kept comfortable' instead of being treated for serious illness and while leaders wonder about food supplies. Never fear that your priorities aren't correct. You are on the right track, have no doubts.
metatron
-
cofty
Clearly, the whole matter is as simple as rejecting grade school math.
Yes teaching creationism is as dumb as rejecting grade school math (actually I'm guessing here, I have no idea what grade school is)
Of course there are many debates within the scientific community, if there weren't they could all go home and play golf instead. None of these genuine controversies effect a school curriculum.
Then there are the kooks like Richard Milton who give encouragement to religiously motivated kooks who wear ignorance like a badge. Lets keep them away from our childrens minds.
Why are you going on about Muslims and book-burning pensioners? (OK lets ban them too)
Do you do this on every thread?
