A Problem With General Christian Beliefs

by AllTimeJeff 61 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    Hi all. If I should have said Jesus is God the Son, then that is what I meant. I apologize for my over simplification.

    PSac, I haven't done a 180. If anything, I probably line up with more of your vibe then I do say AKJeff on my feelings that I think a higher power exists. I also think love is the #1 thing a human can do for another. (thus the many questions AKJeff has about god, which are most valid)

    AllTimeJeff, If I may say this, and you are free to disagree with me. Everyone, regardless of what they say or how they act, everyone has a religion, a faith in something.

    This looks like a semantics problem where you have your own definitions for words, so I would rather steer clear of that. I don't know from my point of view how you can say everyone has their own religion. I would allow you that perhaps, faith is something we all have, but religion? Not me.

  • wobble
    wobble

    Good point Hamilcarr, it would be difficult, if not impossible, to go through life without loving something, even if that something is only yourself.

    But what I was trying to get at was the altruistic love we see so often, as well as the idiotic romantic love, serve no purpose in an evolutionary or survival of the fittest sense, so when John the writer of the letters , says "God is Love" does that mean that when we love, we bring God in to existence ?

    Not that "He" exists, but that we create him by our love ?

    Kind regards,

    Wobble

  • poppers
    poppers

    Belief and Non-belief are two sides of the same coin. They are both activities of the mind seeking to establish a substantial reality through the use of words. Belief is allowing ourselves to accept something that we have no evidence of; just hope and illusion in place of experience. While we debate whether or not we believe in a certain school of thought, reality slips away unnoticed.

    Well said - see/realize the wisdom of these words and your life can change in an instant.

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff
    But what I was trying to get at was the altruistic love we see so often, as well as the idiotic romantic love, serve no purpose in an evolutionary or survival of the fittest sense, so when John the writer of the letters , says "God is Love" does that mean that when we love, we bring God in to existence ?
    Not that "He" exists, but that we create him by our love ?

    Wobble, I think you are on to something there. As a philosophy in the abstract, it can work. Having said that, you don't need to call it this to love others. It merely is an interpretation, but doesn't prove the superiority of Christianity, nor is Christianity necesarry to believe this if you want to have this philosophy as your own personal religion.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    Wobble,

    You'll need to accept Satan to explain the badness, right?

    The Christian God is one that not far off from each one of us. He has a plan for us. He's concerned about our genitals. He values our freewill as more important than stopping unimaginble injustice and suffering.

    Many definitions of 'God' would suit the purposes of having simply created us as loving beings, without all of the rest that the Christian God necessitates, right?

    -LWT

  • wobble
    wobble

    My philosophy, or as AT Jeff calls it, my personal religion, does not need a God in the sense of a Christian God, or a Hindu god etc. etc.

    It just requires me to live by the "Golden Rule" of not harming others, and being a loving person, and "POP" for me "god" exists.

    In other words I have a spiritual dimension to my life without having to believe in a Sky-Daddy , or a Creator , or anything else that other men have created for themselves. Especially "Religion", which men have created for their benefit alone.

    So yes, I see all the problems with general Christian beliefs, and other belief systems, and can do without them.

    Love

    Wobble

  • hamilcarr
    hamilcarr
    But what I was trying to get at was the altruistic love we see so often, as well as the idiotic romantic love, serve no purpose in an evolutionary or survival of the fittest sense, so when John the writer of the letters , says "God is Love" does that mean that when we love, we bring God in to existence ?

    I think loves makes perfect sense in an evolutionary sense. Parent/child attachment determines an individual's later ability to engage in long-term friendship bonds which increase his chance of "survival" and his feelings of well-being. It's a scientific fact that children who are brought up by nurturing, loving parents become more stable individuals, "fitter for survival" in our society.

    There're plenty of books on the role empathy played in the evolutionary success of our species.

  • Quillsky
    Quillsky
    Jews, Christains and Muslims believe in the same God, they just have a different view of his Nature.

    100% right. And they just, even within each major group, have different views on what this god requires.

    Judaism is built on the god of Abraham, the god of the Torah, with the core belief being that Jews were the chosen people and had to live by a vast set of rules.

    Christianity was built on the very same god, with the additional belief that Jesus was a part of that god and now everyone who believed in Jesus could become chosen too. At the same time it threw out the Jewish rules for living.

    Finally, Islam was built on those very same foundations around 600 years after Christianity began, with the Qur'an saying that Mohammed was a prophet who worked to get people back to the true teachings of Christianity. Hence the Qur'an acknowledges all of the Jewish and Christian history, except it turfs out the idea that Jesus was god, and goes back to the god of Abraham rather than the triune god of Christianity.

    Okay, so with that out of the way, this is why I have a problem with the whole set-up. Firstly, the chosen people of god concept of Judaism, upon which this is all based. From what we know now of the globe and its fascinating aray of cultures and people, a so-called chosen people idea makes absolutely no sense, although I can see how it served well to unify Jewish tribes living in hostile conditions and trying to stay united and better their lives.

    Secondly, the idea of Jesus the Christ dying for our sins. I simply don't understand this. Whether he was only a man or whether he was part of god, he only died for three days according to Christian theology. Day 4.... he was alive and kicking.

    How does that pay a price for the sins of everyone who has ever lived? I just don't get the equation.

    Say my TV isn't working, and then a very nice TV repairman, a good and honest man who gives free training to other young repairmen, gets hit by a car outside my house......... and goes into a coma for three days. Still my TV doesn't work but one day it may work, or maybe I twiddle some wires and suddenly it does work. Perhaps I use the notes some of his students wrote to feel confident that my TV is still fixable.

    So when he comes out of his 3 day coma I rush over to the hospital and thank him profusely, and pay him, for fixing my TV. How can my TV, no matter what state it is in, possibly be connected to the good TV repairman being in an accident outside my house?

    Sorry to any Christians that this analogy may offend, but I really truly don't understand the whole Christ Died For Your Sins story. That's my problem with the Christian belief system -- the very illogical core of it.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt
    It just requires me to live by the "Golden Rule" of not harming others, and being a loving person, and "POP" for me "god" exists.

    Wobble,

    As it turns out, I believe in God, too -- evidently.

  • wobble
    wobble

    Yup. saves you and me being in the same camp as fundamentalist atheists, or with religionists, we are both in a religion with just one member.

    Do we get any tax breaks ?

    Love

    Wobble

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