The event that happened to Saul on the road to Damascus would be sufficient.
Why wouldn't you simply chock it up to some dilusion or mental problem?
A Problem With General Christian Beliefs
by AllTimeJeff 61 Replies latest watchtower bible
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PSacramento
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leavingwt
Why wouldn't you simply chock it up to some dilusion or mental problem?
That's true. One of Jesus' public miracles like raising the dead or restoring a limb would help.
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PSacramento
That's true. One of Jesus' public miracles like raising the dead or restoring a limb would help.
You recall that even when Jesus did that ( for arguments sake) there were those that did not believe.
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leavingwt
You recall that even when Jesus did that ( for arguments sake) there were those that did not believe.
This is true. Further proof that some of us are Predestined to spend eternity in Hell. We are hopeless.
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Chalam
That's true. One of Jesus' public miracles like raising the dead or restoring a limb would help.
Totally valid LWT :)
John 14:11-13 (New International Version)
11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father.
Blessings,
Stephen
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MisfitMeL
The question of 'Why do we love' has a lot of scientific and biological backing to it, which throws out the need for a god to explain this phenomenon.
Humans are social animals (yes we are animals!). All social animals live in groups/herds/clans etc.
From an evolutionary point of view, humans aren't the strongest or most ferocious creatures, however we do fare better when we band together and can hunt down a big animal for food etc. Animals that live in groups or herds are almost always biologically related in some way.
Survival rates for an animal that is reared by its parent is usually greater than one that is abandoned soon after birth and left to its own devices. Therefore the parents that had that little bit of extra chemicals to generate a feeling of closeness and a sort of bond with their offspring, would have stayed around longer, thereby ensuring the babies were protected longer until they could survive on their own.
Using the laws of evolution, this tendency to bond or 'love' one's own would have been successfully passed down through the generations, increasing in strength because the more 'loving' the parent was, the more likely the child would survive to adulthood.
Anyone who has raised animals (especially mammals) will know how important it is for an animal to immediately bond with the baby soon after birth. Hormones and scents are released to 'seal' the bond between parent and child and create 'love' between them so that the parent will instinctively go out of its way to protect the baby. If this is interrupted, the 'love' no longer exists.
In herds, you also notice that siblings also have 'love' towards other offspring by the same parents. This again is an extension to the parental love. It makes sense that if you are in a group, you bond or love the other members because that way the group is able to defend itself against predators or other dangers and can share the food etc. So the natural evolutionary progression is that the herd that was more close knit and cooperative, fared better than ones that weren't so 'loving'.
Is it any surprise that us human animals today will still fight tooth and nail to defend our family members from harm? Or sacrifice certain things if it meant our loved ones would be happier? We are guided by instinct and the various hormones and chemicals that govern our bodies. Not god. That's how I view it and scientific evidence seems to support it. Biological logic makes perfect sense to me rather than some vague explanation of god making us like him etc.
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MisfitMeL
Oh and sorry, I accidentally ignored the OP!!
Going back onto topic, I quite agree with all the points raised by ATJ.
Every religion thinks they are right. And most believers think that their choice/path/beliefs are the right way, else they wouldn't have chosen it in the first place! If you try to force them to admit it, it causes them some embarrassment, well for the liberal ones anyway, and then they resort to the - well we all believe in the same god and we're all on the same path and god will save all good people.
It's a bit cheeky and an easy get out card, especially considering that if you read the sacred texts of judaism, christianity and islam and practice it, you will realise that each faith demands and insists that its version is right and that regardless of other religions, this one is the TRUE path to salvation.
Of course there are many who have their own interpretation and prefer to create their own type of faith and not follow organized religions, and that's ok, but it still doesn't change the fact that 'true' christianity/islam/judaism if you go by the actual books is very insistent that there is only one path.
Its monotheistic, or rather, "absolute" faiths like this that contributed (though not entirely) to a lot of prejudice, wars and unspeakable crimes against humanity, because the moment you declare that your path is the RIGHT one, it implies by default that everything else is WRONG. Many polytheistic or just vaguely spiritual/tribal faiths don't have the same problem because they are flexible to accommodate any number of deities or viewpoints.
This bothered me even as a JW because I realised that just as I was SO sure of my belief system being the truth, so was everyone else! How can a god punish sincere people for choosing the 'wrong' path if he has never intervened to clarify and unify the multitude of beliefs out there? Ok, maybe in your books he has done it in the past, but what about the present?? We need his intervention now more that ever and he still refuses to do so? It's like a parent watching kids squabble. Sure they may sort it out on their own, but when it starts to get out of hand, no sensible parent would just sit back and stay in the background right?
And if you think that god won't do that, then why still follow a religion? Because despite a 'common theme' the differences in doctrine still outnumber the similarities, so you are better off just chucking out religion and living by basic common principles of humanity don't you think? But then, that's exactly what a lot of humanists/atheists/spiritualists do anyway... and if you are capable of identifying common principles of unification, what is the purpose of a god then?
I suppose it is right when people say that to 'believe' you really have to shut down your brain, stop thinking and accept what you are told. Yet, would a creator of the magnificent brain want mindless followers?!
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designs
So let me get this straight God makes a handful of Miracle Flakes but 18,000 children die everyday from starvation. Ok, we're fine.
You may now continue walking on your knees till they bleed.
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FuzzyPaul
In the few years that I have read this board, I've noticed that the version of God the Watchtower taught is the issue, not God.
SO many of the comments posted on this topic are generalizations stated in terms of being absolutes.
There are significant differences between Biblical beliefs and others. All mankind alive are descendants of Noah. That is why their are similarities in belief systems, they have a common ancient source. Zoroastrianism has been attributed to Ham as its source. An ancient Rabbi stated that it had the most excellent moral code although it is absent divine revelation. Noah is thought to have moved to what is now China. Almost all belief systems have a concern for salvation, being a better person, finding internal peace, moral guidance. When I read parts of The Ramayana and Mahabharata in a World Literature course I was surprised that "fornication" was condemnable in one passage.
What is unique about what is read in the Bible and Jewish Sacred histories is that it is HISTORICAL. Things that can not be directly provable can be converted to have circumstantial proof. Noah, the flood, or the ark were mentioned in this thread. The Ark has been found. http://www.healthark.com/nugem.htm. The Turkish government has made a National Park out of the site.
I studied the sciences, evolution is improbable in the extreme. It could not have happened. Features and functions must be programmed for in DNA. Random assemblies of DNA couldn't create life. DNA isn't chemically possible without life and life isn't possible without DNA. Small mistakes in the replication of DNA are usually fatal when organisms reproduce. Those that are survivable almost always cause disease states. The odds against the chemial evolution of the simplest of organic structures, the smallest single protein found in a living entity greatly exceeds astronomical numbers. (10^100 is about the number of cubic Angstroms in the known Universe. The Bohr radius of Hydrogen gives it a diameter of about 1 Angstrom)
Since evolution is not possible using Mathematical Probabilities then I can represent that God is a certainty. It is a one or the other case, no argument I know of has a third. I am sure there is an Almighty Creator, when I pray I hear him respond. He has told me things that I have had no way of knowing otherwise. This is the same as reported by others in traditional Christianity. God directs me, I don't direct him. But God likes when I ask.
I so hate what the Watchtower did to me and to others. So many people have been disillusioned away from faith because they had faith in people or organizations claiming to have the answers not in the object of faith. The WT version of faith is perverted.
I see the big picture, their is a plan of salvation. God is at work all around us. Looking at a picture of a starving child a person condemned God for it when the picture actually condemned us before him, we caused the problems, we didn't arrange for better things for others.
Blessings,
FuzzyPaul
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AllTimeJeff
Thanks for sharing fuzzy paul. I am too tired to respond to this now, but I can appreciate how important your faith is, and sense your desire to be helpful.