Christians: Is Military Service Wrong?

by leavingwt 116 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Think About It

  Do you not read between the lines and get it yet? This has been a big mind game lesson in psychology by me to see how far down the rat hole of the morality of war issue that bible believing, Jesus following professing Christians would go. You do not have the sense when to stop! I have used reason, logic, history, sarcasim, mockery, and still you hold to twisted scriptures taken out of context to go deeper into your madness of thinking.

  Here is my personality mindset.

  “

  INTJs (Masterminds) are strong individualists who seek new angles or novel ways of looking at things. They enjoy coming to new understandings. They tend to be insightful and mentally quick; however, this mental quickness may not always be outwardly apparent to others since they keep a great deal to themselves. They are very determined people who trust their vision of the possibilities, regardless of what others think. They may even be considered the most independent of all of the sixteen personality types. INTJs are at their best in quietly and firmly developing their ideas, theories, and principles. [ 15 ]

  I think about things very deeply. I know I can't change you. I'm just pointing out the fallacy of your dellusion. My historical documentation did nothing to change your mind, just as a few convoluded scriptures you site is going to change mine. That's why people with that belief and mindset are so quick to go down the rat hole of war and why humanity is in the condition it is in.

  You not only have to take the Red pill, but you also have to swallow it. Free your mind, step out of the box, take your thinking to a higher level and then made clear, logical, rational choices on morality issues.

  You ask: Why do you hold Christians to a higher moral standard than your own self? Sir, I hold you as a professed Christian to your own moral standard that I know in the bible. You are suppose to hold yourself to that standard. Since I'm a non-Christian, pro-Military person....I'm like the mad man telling you that you are mad to think that way.(think about that one)

  P.S.......Do you think me the non-christian will get any salvation credit for upholding the teachings of Jesus side again you? That is an interesting paradox.

  Think About It
• 

  BurnTheShips

  I think about things very deeply.

  Well, if you want to compare pecker sizes by bandying about personality types as if it makes you somehow superior, I'll bite.

  I think more deeply.

  Here is my personality mindset.

  

  http://www.keirsey.com/handler.aspx?s=keirsey&f=fourtemps&tab=5&c=architect

  INTPs (Architects) are known for their quest for logical purity, which motivates them to examine universal truths and principles. They are constantly asking themselves and others the questions 'Why?' and 'Why not?' Clear and quick thinkers, they are able to focus with great intensity on their interests. They appreciate elegance and efficiency in thought processes and require them, even more so, in their own communications. They may be seen as unwilling to accept what everyone else regards as truth. While often low key in outward appearance and approach, the INTP is 'hard as nails' when challenging a truth. INTPs do not like to deal with the obvious. They are at their best in building conceptual models and developing unusual and complex ideas.

  Architects are rare - maybe one percent of the population - and show the greatest precision in thought and speech of all the types. They tend to see distinctions and inconsistencies instantaneously, and can detect contradictions no matter when or where they were made.It is difficult for an Architect to listen to nonsense, even in a casual conversation, without pointing out the speaker's error. And in any serious discussion or debate Architects are devastating, their skill in framing arguments giving them an enormous advantage. Architects regard all discussions as a search for understanding, and believe their function is to eliminate inconsistencies, which can make communication with them an uncomfortable experience for many.

  Albert Einstein as the iconic Rational is an Architect. Dr. David Keirsey, Robert Rosen, George Soros, Gregory Peck, James Madison, Ludwig Boltzman, Charles Darwin, Adam Smith, and Thomas Jefferson "

  I know you can't change me, because you are unable to convince me. And your ham fisted attempt at an argument is not convincing to someone that has considered things more deeply than you obviously have. Your historical videos did nothing to change my mind, because they do not obtain to any sort of point you have attempted to make.

  I will carefully restate my point:

  It is not wrong to fight in a just war of last resort.

  Your attempt at emotional appeal through the use of your YouTube clips (none of which I have bothered to watch) does not make your point against my statement above.

  I've asked you to spell out your point, and your responses have ranged from calling me an idiot, to a dip-shit. That's really convincing! You win the debate!

  I'm laughing at the "superior intellect".

  BTS
• 

  Think About It

  I will carefully restate my point:

  It is not wrong to fight in a just war of last resort.

  Your attempt at emotional appeal through the use of your YouTube clips (none of which I have bothered to watch) does not make your point.

  You didn't even consider the YouTube clips of the mass genocide of the American Indians by Christians? Defense of a just war of last resort is not how this started, so evidently I did some good with you.

  If that is your personality, then by going against such logic and rational.....I can only conclude you are under the influence of some Christian cult.

  The only thing left for me to do is sum it up by stating.....You Sir, ARE an idiot! Also, by comparing your mental personality with a penis, I can only conclude you are also a dickhead!

  Think About It
• 

  BurnTheShips

  You didn't even consider the YouTube clips of the mass genocide of the American Indians by Christians? Defense of a just war of last resort is not how this started, so evidently I did some good with you.

  I won't bother watching things that I am already familiar with. I am familiar with the injustices committed against Native Americans by Christians. But as I have said before, they do not make your point, if there is actually an attempt at a point buried in there. As I have acknowledged up thread, Christians have committed atrocities, and these do not jibe with the basic tenets of Christianity.

  The only thing left for me to do is sum it up by stating.....You Sir, ARE an idiot! Also, by comparing your mental personality with a penis, I can only conclude you are also a dickhead!

  Thanks, you've made it all abundantly clear. You're a new member to the board, and you've told me all I need to know about you.

  BTS
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  Think About It

  It's done. Pray for me.

  P.S....you would not stop going down the rat hole.
• 

  BurnTheShips

  P.S....you would not stop going down the rat hole.

  Congratulations!

  Shame on me for letting you waste my time.

  BTS
• 

  Think About It

  Ditto.

  Peace and take care.
• 

  SacrificialLoon

  There was a lot of debate in the early church as to whether military service was right or not.

  According to Tertullian there was the "Thundering Legion" in 173 was saved by Christian soldiers who prayed, and brought a thunderstorm filling the water barrels, and caused the barbarians to flee.

  Origen of Alexandria argues that Christians should not not say that the power or prayer was enough.

  The Canons of Hippolytus from ~340 state that

  -No Christian should voluntarilt brcome a soldier

  -If he becomes a soldier he should not shed blood... really

  -If he has he should stay away from the sacred mysteries until he has done penance

  St. Augustine, after the sacking of Rome in 410 began to lay down the theory of "Just War".

  Using Christianity to officialy sanction war began in the 600's when the Persians took Jerusalem and the relic of the true cross. Heraclius Emperor of the Eastern Empire in effect led the first crusade against the Zorostrian Persians, and successfuly returned the relic to Jerusalem in 630 only to lose the city to the Muslims in 632. In the West Christian military orders didn't come up until the Muslims reached Iberia (Spain & Portugal).
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  AGuest

  AGuest.....I'm not sure how I want to respond to this

  I am not sure that is accurate, dear TAI... and may you have peace! I think the accurate response is that you don't know "how to respond" at all. And I totally understand.

  because frankly........it's not to the point and it's kinda "out there".

  Actually, it's exactly to the point. Let me show you. Your comment was:

  “I need some advise.”

  Well, okay, I've been directed to offer you some. You went on:

  Next weekend I'm taking my F-2000 and going on some para-military war games with my ex-Army/Marine SIL. This time, I think I'm going to portray a Bible believin', God-fearin'. true Christian fightin' SOB.

  Apparently, since you stated that your were going to “portray a… ‘true’ Christian… I was compelled by my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, the Holy One of Israel and Son and Christ of the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... who is the LEADER of all true christians... to “advise” you as to what a TRUE christian would do in such a case. Or, perhaps, would not do... you decide...

  Should I wear a cross and carry a pocket bible?

  Although my Lord did not direct me to respond directly to that question, I will now: the answer is “neither.”

  Do I pray before or after I kill any insurgents?

  Well, if you’re serious… and since I don't know you, I certainly don't know (and since there ARE people out there who ARE serious when they make such statements, I must respond)... I am directed to tell you that you should pray BOTH. BEFORE you kill ANYONE... AND after. Because you’re gonna need a whole lotta forgiveness. Which you won’t get… if you don’t ask. And in order to ask, you will acnknowledge that you've done something that makes you NEED forgiveness, yes?

  Just what is proper Christian military etiqutte in these matters? WWJD...please help!

  And thus, my response addressed this question... as it was directed to do by my Lord... and was TOTALLY to the point.

  Lot's of history video evidence and logical questions of my points.

  Not sure what you mean. Would you be kind enough to clarify? Thank you!

  To put so much time and effort into a difference conclusion on the matter is puzzling.

  First, I think you mean either (1) “into a different conclusion, or (2) “into a difference OF conclusion…” Second, I don't think that's accurate, either way you say it. It is not the time and effort I expended that is puzzling you. It's the content of what I shared that is puzzling you. Let's keep it honest, dear TAI, if we can...

  I think about things very deeply.

  Given your statements “I’m not sure how I want to respond” and “it’s kinda out there”, makes ME think that perhaps not deeply enough. Though. I mean, I went “deep.” You… well, you seem to have gulped a bit of salty "water". Maybe more than a bit. What I offered, however, was fresh "water." Which you seem unable to drink... yet. You should take care not to confuse "long and hard" thinking... which oftens leads to... well... nowhere... with "deep" thinking. Truly, they are not one and the same.

  Again, I bid you peace... and perhaps even ears to hear.

  Your servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA, who thinks you might want to consider that perhaps you don’t really know what “deep thinking” really is…
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  blondie

  In my area for Christians and non-Christians alike the real question is: Is every war one that should be fought? Some feel no war is; others feel that they should support the wars of their country and others feel that each war must be judged individually.

  I don't feel that this is a question that can be answered one way for all Christians (even all non-Christians) as a group answer. Each one has to make their own decision.