Christians: Is Military Service Wrong? (page 2)

leavingwt

I'm enjoying everyone's comments. Keep 'em coming. Thank you.

snowbird

IMHO, there are times when individuals/famlies/communities/states/nations must take up arms to defend themselves. Otherwise, they will cease to exist.

What do you say?

I agree wholeheartedly.

One of the Twelve Apostles believed it, too.

Luke 6:15 Simon, called the Zealot ... MSG

Sylvia

No, military service is not "wrong," per se. It is a choice; however, one would be hardpressed to make such a choice and still say that have love for their enemies... which is a commandment under the New Covenant. There are two Bible examples (yes, NT) that help to understand why it isn't "wrong," but that there are consequences that all, particularly one who has received holy spirit, need to consider.

The first is the words of John the Baptist to soldiers who asked what was required of them, as recorded by Luke:

"Soldiers also asked him, "And we, what shall we do?" And he said to them, "Do not extort money from anyone by threats or by false accusation, and be content with your wages." Luke 3:14

Since my Lord is recorded to have said (Matthew 11:11): "... among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist ..." John's words are to be considered. Here, soldiers (i.e., those in "military" service) asked him what was required of them, because John had just told the tax collectors what they needed to do. John did not tell them to resign from the military, however. He simply gave them instructions on how to carry out their service in an honest and truthful way.

The second would be the words of my Lord, spoken to his disciples just before going out to be seized:

"And he said to them, 'When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?' They said, 'Nothing.' He said to them, 'But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: "And he was numbered with the transgressors." For what is written about me has its fulfillment.' And they said, 'Look, Lord, here are two swords.' And he said to them, 'It is enough .'" Luke 22:35-38

The WTBTS teaches that the reason they took swords is because there were dangerous and wild animals on the road. That is a LIE. They took them because people carried them... because there were many ROBBERS on the road. And so, because the scripture had to be fulfilled, they couldn't let the prophesied upcoming events be thwarted by some dimwit thief on the road. Thus, IF some thief had come up, they would have exhibited their swords in order to move on past that potential delay. My Lord only approved two swords, however, just enough to ward of robbers, but not enough to fight the soldiers that came to arrest him.

However, his disciples did not LIVE by the sword, but only carried them for protection while traveling the roads. Of those who LIVE by the sword, my Lord is recorded to have said to Peter, when he wielded his:

"Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword ." Matthew 26:52

So, no, military service is "wrong." There are all manner of things one can do in military service. Building roads and bridges can be military service. Rescuing disaster victims can be military. Transporting the sick/injured can be military service. Tending to the sick/injured can be military service. And, yes, taking up arms can be military service... whether such arms are taken up on a local level (police or deputy sheriff), a state level (trooper, highway patrol, state guard), or federal level (army, navy, air force, marines, coast guard, U.S. Marshall, DEA, ATF, etc.).

It is up to the one. One must remember, however, that those who belong to Christ "learn war no more," as well as the consequences of "learning war," if one does choose to take up the sword (i.e., fight for a living, on whatever level). The consequence to the life of others... as well as to the life of oneself... should be first in one's mind... and heart.

I have shared this with you just as it was shared with and given to me by my Lord, the Holy Spirit and Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, the Son and Christ of the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... and so I hope this helps you.

I bid you peace, dear LWT.

A slave of Christ,

SA

leavingwt

love for their enemies

I guess I have a difficult time understanding why war is so much different than self-defense. (On a larger scale, obviously.)

If the "enemy" kills the Christian's family, because the Christian refuses to fight, isn't the Christian showing more love for the enemy than to his own family?

leavingwt

Side question. . .

How many are living in a country that would exist if nations hadn't fought?

I guess we could assume that we're alive because of God, but certainly it also been because of the blood and sweat of soliders that many of us are alive and free (to some extent) today.

-LWT

JWoods

For sure war was encouraged in the Old Testament, and one of the consequences of god's wrath was that the Israelites might LOSE a war.

While the New Testament does not encourage war in the same way, it does not clearly denounce it either.

Again, I say it is a personal decision.

Think About It

The JW's are biblically more right than most other "Christians" on this issue.

Think About It

undercover

What would Jesus do?

leavingwt

The JW position reminds me of their position on blood. The glady accept certain lifesaving blood fractions. These fractions only exist because SOMEBODY DONATED BLOOD. Yet, they refuse to donate blood.

They gladly operate their facilities in Brooklyn, NY, enjoying a relatively safe neighborhood. This safety is only possible because of the guns used by the NYPD and U.S. military.

So, they're eager to benefit from such "ungodly" things, but unwilling to help with the "heavy lifting".

AGuest

If the "enemy" kills the Christian's family, because the Christian refuses to fight, isn't the Christian showing more love for the enemy than to his own family?

Yes, dear LWT (again, peace to you!). But in doing so, one is "like" God. Because God showed "more" love for earthling man... most of who have shown themselves to be God's enemies, from the start... and who continue to show this... than for His own Son... HIS "family"... by giving that Son's human life on behalf of earthling man. Like God, however, the true christian knows that the flesh is on no use at all and so one hasn't really lost one's family/loved one... at least, not permanently.

Now, I don't expect you to understand this - indeed, it may even be foolishness to you. But it is those who love their ENEMIES (which is the HIGHEST form of love - for it's easy to love those loving you)... rather than those who love only... or foremost... those loving them... who PROVE themselves to be sons of God. Because these are the ones who are truly "like" God, as my Lord is recorded to have said:

"You have heard that the law of Moses says, `Love your neighbor' and hate your enemy. But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and on the unjust, too. If you love only those who love you, what good thing are you doing? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. And if you are kind only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? Even the nations do that. But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5:43-48

This "perfection," dear LWT is NOT in the flesh... contrary to the "hope" taught by the WTBTS. It is perfection in LOVE... which is FULFILLED in loving... even ones enemy. That the WTBTS does NOT get this... and so prove that they are NOT sons of God... is borne out in their practice of disfellowshipping, remaining literally "separate" from the world in BODY (vs. in SPIRIT), and waiting and praying for the destruction of their "enemies." Even the Most Holy One of Israel does not want ANY to die; thus, my Lord's words of HIS enemies, those who put him to death, was "FORGIVE them, Father, because they don't now what they're doing."

Again, I understand that such love may be foolishness to you. But, again, the TRUTH is that it is YOUR choice... and I have shared that truth with you... along with the OTHER truths... that there are consequences. That you want to change the reality, however... and perhaps the consequences... so that you can make such a choice with a "clear" conscience is, well, on you. But the truth of THAT is that you'd really only be fooling yourself.

Again, I bid you peace.

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

Christians: Is Military Service Wrong?

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