JW boy and 'worldly' girl - love torn in two

by nekoreichan 20 Replies latest jw experiences

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  dgp

  Many people here will give you very good advice on what to do if you fall for a Jehovah's witness. My own advice can't beat what others have already said. I want to make a contribution, however, and, from my own experience. From your post, I gather that you're not really clear as to where you stand with him or what is going on.

  Oniichan's religion frowns on their having any sort of relationship with "worldly" people other than Bible studies or preaching. What is normal for you and me, like hanging out, watching a movie, having dinner together in that little restaurant around the corner, giving them a simple present, that is not normal or expected from them. He knows that very well, and has always known it. Yet he's a human being and fell for you. In doing that, he's breaking the rules. His mere befriending you, I understand, wouldn't get him disfellowshipped. Neither would his marrying you. However, his seeing you is indeed very strongly discouraged.

  I bet he had no trouble relating to you when you had a boyfriend. That was because you were unavailable. This is warped logic, yes, but that's the way it works. If they can't have you, then they are safe with you. The minute you become available, you also become a risk, and it is then that they have to avoid you like the plague. Because you are indeed the plague for them.

  He was deceiving himself when he said you couldn't be boyfriend and girlfriend but could be friends. He knows full well that he can't be your friend. But he is a human being and followed his heart.

  He does love you. And he isn't doing what he's doing because he's mean. Now that his secret is out, he can't see you without serious consequences. I'm afraid he's too young to be on his own, and probably he knows it. He's also been raised under the belief that he will die forever unless he follows whatever the Watchtower Society tells him to do.

  Dandingus says you can either become a witness, or hope that he will be out. Or, accept that nothing can happen.

  Me, I would wait and see if he can be out. Or, if he will take the heat and be with you anyways. In my lucid moments I am firmly convinced that no one should join the religion. I don't think joining would be a good option for you. I do urge you to read about the Watchtower as much as you can. This forum would be excellent for you, as it has been for me. Don't dive into the religion without knowing what you would be getting into.

  He might leave the religion for you, only to return later. Bear that in mind.

  I agree with Dandingus that most likely the guy will stay in his religion and you will have no choice. He knows this full well, because he was in.

  I encourage you to read a lot, with patience, asking yourself questions and trying to get answers for them. I know you're in love and, for you, like for Dandingus' girl, leaving might look like too much. It does look like too much for me, you know? And I'm a lot older than you are. You will only reach a decision that you like after a long time, and long thoughts.

  I wish you and your Oniichan the best, dearest.
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  GLTirebiter

  Wecome, nekoreichan!

  Add my voice to Black Sheep, Garyneal, and DGP. You really need to understand what you and Oniichan are up against. Making a relationship work is hard enough without the outside pressure from the congregation and Oniichan's family. That pressure is real, it is strong, and it is persistent. It is used to wear down his and your resistance and bring you and your relationship under the organization's control. Don't jump to any sudden decisions in reaction to the congregation and his family. Oniichan needs to take the time to discover his real self, and you need to understand what you're getting into if you proceed. Take it slow, be really sure of what you're doing.

  Please visit freeminds.org and read the articles there about how the JW religion affects relationships and controls its members. Having lived through the experience, I assure you: what they say is accurate.

  (edited to make the link "clickable")
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  Tea drinker

  Welcome nekoreichan.

  I was in an almost identical situation to you. I was in love with a Japanese girl who came to England to study. However it was I who was the Witness.

  She did not return my feelings at first and, like one of the posters related above, it was "okay" for me to pursue her without worrying too much--I couldn't have her. I worked tirelessly, pursued her in all the traditional ways: chocolates, flowers, poetry, tickets to the ballet (I even had her fitted for a dress and bought matching jewellery) and eventually she did return my feelings and we even planned to marry.

  This put me in a difficult position but she had been studying with me (as a JW) for quite some time by then, and so I was hopeful that she would eventually get baptised. However, she eventually told me that she could not accept the religion. This led to all sorts of problems. I planned to marry her whether she converted or not as I loved her so much, but I just could not stop seem to stop myself from badgering her and trying to convert her (I was trying to save her life after all..."sigh"). This eventually tired her and the battle of wills eventually made us both ill. Soon after, her parents got wind of the whole thing. First objection: I was a "gaijin" (foreigner). Second objection: I was a Jehovah's Witness and her mother knew all about the religion. As you can imagine, it all ended badly: we both said and did a lot of hurtful things. I am ashamed of myself but I tell you this: it was my manipulative and controlling attempts to make her submit to the Watch Tower which were most toxic to our relationship. She said I was like two people: a kind, romantic and gentle man who put her first, most of the time; but an unreasonable tyrant when it came to religion.

  This is my point nekoreichan: he may love you and he may even get the courage to court you, but he will not be able to stop himself from trying to manipulate and control you as long as he is indoctrinated. He believes that you will die a painful and agonizing death if he does not convert you and this will haunt him until he can get you into the Watch Tower. I know this because I was him six years ago. You have got some good advice from other posters and I would like to echo some of the advice they have given you. Perhaps you can help him awaken? That is your choice but be careful. Others have explained the choices you have. I would give their comments due consideration.

  Kindest regards,

  Tea drinker
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  WTWizard

  I put the whole blame on the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger for sxxx like this. The witlesses are supposed to stay within their own group, since the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger is afraid that someone might find the real truth from outside sources. Plus, they are worried sick about fornication--to the point where there are rules keeping the two sexes apart and making them subdue their attractiveness. Chances are good that they are also told that, the only reason they should care about you is to bring you into the cancer.

  For him, I strongly recommend, as soon as possible, that he write a disassociation letter thanking them for trying to ruin his life and happiness. After, let the relationship run its course. Either you will find happiness for life together, or you will find out that you were not meant for each other--either way, the witlesses stole your right to find out away from you. And so what if this wouldn't have been the One. You make mistakes, you learn from them, you avoid them the next time, make different mistakes, and eventually it's supposed to work out. But, with the witlesses, you only get one chance. If you make a mistake, too bad for you. I definitely recommend, as soon as possible, the disassociation letter. That will also stop them from busting up the relationship--which they will to "save" him from getting disfellowshipped.
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  dgp

  Teadrinker wrote

  She said I was like two people: a kind, romantic and gentle man who put her first, most of the time; but an unreasonable tyrant when it came to religion.

  THIS IS SO TRUE OF EVERY WITNESS WHO FALLS FOR A WORLDLY. My witness (who I might never see or hear from again) is unbelievably, heart-wrenchingly sweet at times, only to become the coldest, meanest, most hurtful person. In a second. She can say she has no trouble with me personally, or my messages, or my calls, and did she tremble when she said she wouldn't marry me; and that is turned off in a second and she becomes one of the meanest people I have ever seen.

  he may love you and he may even get the courage to court you, but he will not be able to stop himself from trying to manipulate and control you as long as he is indoctrinated. He believes that you will die a painful and agonizing death if he does not convert you and this will haunt him until he can get you into the Watch Tower. I know this because I was him six years ago.

  HE DOES LOVE YOU! In his mind, his manipulative and controlling ways are his way to save you. He thinks he's doing this out of love! I can only understand what my witness feels, because I feel the very same way about her. I shudder to think that she might bleed herself to death over the babble coming out of the mouths of some men in Brooklyn! I am torn to know that all of her life has been one of suffering and pain! And I just can't stand the thought that this will continue to happen! I would want her out with all of my heart! I would want the whole family out! I don't like the father, who inflicted so much pain to her, yet I didn't really like it to know that he lives off welfare. A whole life of hard work to end up this way. And, why? So, while I would suggest that you resist his attempts, don't hate him for them. He thinks he's doing the most loving thing.

  Perhaps you can help him awaken?

  This is difficult. I wanted to become a witness just so I could be with my woman. Deep down, I knew I couldn't do it. So I was in an emotional rollercoaster, day and night. He might choose to leave the religion on a similar feeling, just because he loves you so much he can't live without you, but once he has you, he might try to take you in. Awakening him would be very difficult and he would pay a very, very high price.

  Please, do get to read a lot and do try to understand everything before you make any move. Don't try to rush things. Patience will pay off.

  You and I, and many others, share something that the Watchtower can't take away from us. We love them with an uncommon kind of love. Love is just a word unless it's followed by actions, and actions do we take. Maybe the Watchtower will take him away from you, but, deep in your heart, do not resent him. He must be a great guy. He was just unlucky.
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  dgp

  Oh, and I forgot yet another thing, again by Tea Drinker:

  She did not return my feelings at first and, like one of the posters related above, it was "okay" for me to pursue her without worrying too much--I couldn't have her. I worked tirelessly, pursued her in all the traditional ways: chocolates, flowers, poetry, tickets to the ballet (I even had her fitted for a dress and bought matching jewellery) and eventually she did return my feelings and we even planned to marry.

  Don't hate Oniichan for his mixed messages. He just followed his heart.
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  anewme

  He has to come to you. Dont go chasing after a JW boy. You will get hurt.
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  isaacaustin

  nekoreichan, Years ago i was you. I was raised in the org but never baptized. I met an fell for an inactive JW, who still believed it to be the truth. She ended up going back and it has put a wall between us. I would not recommend my course to others.
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  MMXIV

  nekoreichan,

  I can add little to the honest and heartfelt advice already written here, but your story is far from boring and I wish you well. Oniichan will be very confused right now from the shock of feeling good about life to suddenly being treated and no doubt feeling like a criminal in just a few days. I have experienced what this is like and it is something that will live with him for a long time. Part of his confusion is that he is being criminalised for doing what he enjoyed and was a beautiful thing - spending time with you - which he knows is wrong according to JW's but he didn't feel was wrong - in fact he loved being with you.

  You can help by being there for an open communication when he is ready but ultimately he needs to face the consequences of what he wants - to either turn his back on a religion that condemns him for doing something that is normal and with it his family and all his friends. Or try and reconcile himself to the religion by working hard to prove he is a good JW again. Either way he has to make that decision and will take many years to come to terms with it.

  For him - this is an emotional upheaval like his parents dying or being divorced by a long term partner - but in many ways worse. Most would consider this to be a very bad time to get involved in a relationship. So it doesn't mean it can't work but just be realistic what is involved and take your time.

  I am sorry this is something you are involved with as you have done no wrong and it is the fault of a belief system with serious flaws. Let us know what happens if you feel you want to at some point in the future or if you have any questions.

  MMXIV
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  garyneal

  I guess I was a bit hasty in proclaiming Jehovah's Witnesses to be bad news but I must say that it will not be easy if you two decide to get together and he still believes this religion to be the truth. My wife and I met when she became inactive. She was not baptized at the time so it did not cause too much of an issue with our dating but there were problems. Her mother contacted the elders and told them about her relationship with me and this set off a lof of problems for their family. She was threatened to be kicked out by her parents, her mom's privleges in pioneering was threatened to be removed, and her dad's ministerial servant priveleges were threatened to be removed. In short, our love caused a rift in their family.

  We decided to move out of the city so I could find another job. This made things easier for her parents as she was now out of the house. Of course, she lost her priveleges to be an unbaptized publisher. We started attending meetings in the new city but I was not too impressed with them. Never-the-less I permitted the studying to continue. While I considered myself Christian, I did not go to church regularly and she eventually became irregular in her studies and meeting attendance. She nearly became an atheist but was always afraid that she was going to die at the big A.

  Long story short, she found nothing in the churches I attended that satisfied her. She still held fast to her religion alone being the truth, so she began studying again in earnest and started 'progressing in the truth.' This made me realize that I did not really have a faith at all and seeked to find the truth. But I later returned to who I originally was, albeit a little smarter. She, however, is now a baptized publisher. Things haven't been easy for us because just as others have stated she can be very sweet sometimes and a overbearing control freak in another. Reading the other's posts makes me realize that it is not her I should be upset with, it is the machine that is the Watchtower Society.

  Now I am sure she wants to drag my daughter in, fearing for her everlasting life. I am going to provide resistance and assert the headship card as needed to prevent my daughter from being sucked into this emotionally abusive cult of a religion.

  My advice to you is to think about any future kids you may decide to have with him. Are you okay with him possibly letting them die should they need a blood transfusion? What about the holidays? Do you think it would be okay to celebrate them? Do you want your kids to celebrate them? According to his beliefs, he is the man and the head of the household. He may not let you and I will guarantee you that he will probably not allow any compromises in regards to his raising the kids 'in the truth.'

  Think about what your future with him will be like if he does not leave the Watchtower society. His not wanting to be with you is really a blessing in disguise.