by daniel-p 35 Replies latest jw friends
I don't know what change they will make, but they will have to make a change.
--The complexity of the issue is escalating out of control. A JW who can't understand what albumin is even after repeated explanations sure as hell won't be able to understand what chemokine (C-X-C motif) ligand 4 is.
Let's break this down: what would the consequences of discreetly dropping the blood ban be?
Possibly very little. How is that possible? After so many have died?
Easy: First, they make it a 'conscience' matter. In many cases, this is simply 'code' for "don't do it". The Society gets off the hook and the killing continues. Russia and Europe stop bothering them about blood and ignorant, deceived Witnesses keep dying.
Think the above is impossible? Ask yourself, "how powerful is Witness peer pressure?" It's powerful enough to get thousands of Witnesses to attend blazingly unpleasant conventions in places like Vets Stadium in Philadelphia en masse, and risk heat stroke, to listen to repetitive garbage that will be republished in the Watchtower anyway. It's powerful enough to get them to waste useless hours of the sacred currency of their lifespan knocking on doors in a sterile 'ministry'.
OK, so somebody says "What about the Witnesses who have died?" The Society mumbles some nonsense about the resurrection and how suffering for conscience is agreeable to God. Actually, very few Witnesses even mention dying for blood because peer pressure prevents them from saying anything that could be interpreted as 'apostasy'. The self censoring is part of being a Witness.
And let me throw in some instructive examples from the past - the aftermath of 1975: "we never said the End would come!" (Really?)
They sent people to their deaths by denying organ transplants. Was there any rebellion? Nope.
They sent people to their deaths by refusing alternative service to the military in 3rd world and Communist countries. Was there any rebellion? No, again.
If they make this change, I can guarantee you that some elders will say "well, it always was a personal decision. Nothing has really changed".
Being a Witness IS NOT ABOUT LOGIC OR REASON! If it was, you wouldn't be a Witness in the first place. It's about obsessive habits and surrendering your powers of reasoning to a cult.
Conclusion: They can get away with it.
metatron
I recall someone posting on another thread how important it is for the society to change their stance on the whole blood thing. I personally agree that this issue is a legal time bomb considering the number of emotionally charged lawsuits brought against the society over this issue. All it takes is one win and there would be an avalanche of lawsuits that would overwhelm the society, bringing it to its knees.
They would be crazy not to make this a concious matter. The whole hospital liason committee is in and of itself a legal liability. There are doctor patient confidentiality laws that seem to be if not broken then definitely bruised when the whole liason committee gets between a doctor and his or her JW patient. In addition to this, giving elders 'power of attorney' priveleges over immediate family members is just a lawsuit waiting to happen.
The WTS's best bet is to get out of the whole business of dictating what they think God thinks over the matter of blood transfusions and let it be a concious matter between the Jehovah's Witness and Jehovah God.
Metatron: I understand your reasoning, but I think the fact that the blood ban is a much more salient issue escalates any fallout above and beyond anything from the organ transplant issue and the civil service issue. Everyone knows someone who either died, or almost died, from refusing blood. It applies to everyone. Every JW has a "No Blood" card that they revise every year, with annual information on fractions, etc. What will go through their minds when they throw this card away?
I just think this would be one of the biggest doctrine changes ever, and will affect more people than ever. There are many more people alive today as JWs that lost their spouse, parent, or child by refusing blood, and what will they feel? All those people will likely have a severly damaged faith after this. It's a much bigger issue than organs or civil service, that's all I'm saying. So while there will be a large contingent that will sweep it under the rug as always, many, many JWs will be permanently disgruntled.
Let's break it down. The blood card - what happens? They give you one if you ask for it. If your conscience says 'No blood', you get one and get it signed. Easy as that.
Dead Witnesses? So what? They're dead and awaiting the resurrection, brother. That's our Bible given hope, don't you know? Jehovah approves of what they did and you'll see them again, don't you worry.
What do you think Witlesses will do? Rebel? Speak up openly? Start a protest at WTBS headquarters? Really? Are you that naive?
So, their faith is damaged? And what difference does that make? Do they close their wallets, anymore than they have already? Stop attending meetings? Unthinkable for oldtimers! Not gonna happen. Many of them will say, 'they had to do it for legal reasons but taking blood is still wrong".
More than that. I say that the Society will have an easy job of deceit because Witnesses typically are eager to deceive themselves. They only need a little encouragement and publishers will take care of the rest.
They are punked, pawned, owned, enslaved, deceived, suckered and beat down weaklings who will eagerly believe that the blood transfusion issue was ALWAYS VOLUNTARY!!. A few brothers at branch offices will quietly leave as they understand they were boned and conned. If they say anything publically critical, they will be labeled as 'apostates' and silenced. Anyone else who doubts will continue to drag themselves to meetings, day after day, year after year.
I can GUARANTEE YOU that, if this change is made, you will see Witlesses exchange e-mails about 'what a wonderful provision from Jehovah's organization this is'.
I have said it before and I'll say it again: You could have the Governing Body sodomizing boys on a parade float being towed down Broadway at high noon and the average Witness would deny it ever happened. If they saw it, they would simply sigh and say "Well, it's still the 'truth' !".
metatron
Let's break it down. The blood card - what happens? They give you one if you ask for it. If your conscience says 'No blood', you get one and get it signed. Easy as that.
Dead Witnesses? So what? They're dead and awaiting the resurrection, brother. That's our Bible given hope, don't you know? Jehovah approves of what they did and you'll see them again, don't you worry.
What do you think Witlesses will do? Rebel? Speak up openly? Start a protest at WTBS headquarters? Really? Are you that naive?
So, their faith is damaged? And what difference does that make? Do they close their wallets, anymore than they have already? Stop attending meetings? Unthinkable for oldtimers! Not gonna happen. Many of them will say, 'they had to do it for legal reasons but taking blood is still wrong".
More than that. I say that the Society will have an easy job of deceit because Witnesses typically are eager to deceive themselves. They only need a little encouragement and publishers will take care of the rest.
They are punked, pawned, owned, enslaved, deceived, suckered and beat down weaklings who will eagerly believe that the blood transfusion issue was ALWAYS VOLUNTARY!!. A few brothers at branch offices will quietly leave as they understand they were boned and conned. If they say anything publically critical, they will be labeled as 'apostates' and silenced. Anyone else who doubts will continue to drag themselves to meetings, day after day, year after year.
I can GUARANTEE YOU that, if this change is made, you will see Witlesses exchange e-mails about 'what a wonderful provision from Jehovah's organization this is'.
I have said it before and I'll say it again: You could have the Governing Body sodomizing boys on a parade float being towed down Broadway at high noon and the average Witness would deny it ever happened. If they saw it, they would simply sigh and say "Well, it's still the 'truth' !".
metatron
The only way I can see them doing drastic changes is to purge those on the fence to make it easier for new ones to come in. If they can calculate that the new ones will offset the ones leaving then it may be in their best interest financially to change blood doctrine as well as get rid of 607/1914. If they loose 20% and downsize, sell KHs collect the cash and start growing with new ones not knowing the past it may be a benefit in a long term but internet will always be a thorn in their side. At present, I will believe it when I see it but I don't think at present dubs are ready for blood policy change.
Look at publisher stats for the 1973 - 1980 period. How much did they lose with the 1975 fraud? Very little. They offered a feeble non-apology and went back to business and the Witlesses bought it.
Witnesses are punked, owned willing dolts. They will not rebel. They will sigh and keep going.
metatron
I see daniel-p's point about just how many folks are effected by the blood ban, but I would argue that the civil service issue affected as many. I know lots of folks in my parent generation that went to jail in the US over Vietnam when they could have been spared with performing civil service at home instead. Those boys who went to jail when they were 18 are still elders and such and didn't leave over the issue. I guess the main difference is the loss of life (obviously not even a real comparison).
I guess the closest comparison would be the allowance of fractions now vs the previous complete ban. I don't know a single person that left because the WTS allows "fractions". As a matter of fact, when the big change was made, there was a look of relief. Think of all the folks that could have been saved in the past if the now allowed fractions were allowed then! I know that much of the fractioning science is relatively new so maybe that portion of the ban didn't matter as much.
Let me ask, how many lawsuits have there been? I know the Hughes suit but Canada's courts seemed to have come down on the WTS side. You know the US courts will favor a religious body over an individual due to the 1st amendment. And since the US is by far and away the most litigious country in the world, I don't think the WTS is worried about losing too much.
I do believe that the perception of major liability is very concerning to the WTS. I think that countries in the EU, Russia and other places view the WTS with suspicion and have honed in on the blood ban as a reckless endangerment (which I agree). The old version of the WTS would try to get themselves thrown into jail. This version doesn't have any fight in them and if there's a change in policy, its probably going to be to try and be seen as a legitimate religion.
I agree with metatron in that most of the rank & file will say that "blood is still bad but the WTS can come out and say it due to Satan's wicked legal system". When I was a congo secretary, I was shocked at the number of folks that refused ALL fractions on their blood cards. I saw probably half of the congregation's because JWs will often provide a copy for the congregation's files in case of emergency. I also saw a lot of folks VERY confused as to what to do. I always recommended praying (of course) about it but when asked what I did, I gladly told them I said yes to everything. Immediately, folks that I had that conversation with decided if an elder said yes, then they would too.
Bottom line in my viewpoint the best that can be hoped for is making RBC, WBC & plasma fractions and allowed and keep the whole blood ban for another 5 to 10 years and then finally dropping. But, there will still be a large number that will continue to refuse those.
I really don't think they would lose membership over the issue. I think there will be a shrug of the shoulders and folks will continue on.
Metatron:
You are absolutely right. Spot on.
Sad to say, back in the day when I 1st left the org, I tried to see changes & things that happen in the org as a basis for my dear wife to see just what a joke the WT religion is. I even thought that the changes that they made to the Revelation book would stumble her. What a joke that was. Absolutely nothing will move her.
I have had conversations with her & literally banged my head across a wall as I was hearing her reply to my objections. When things get too truthful & she can see my point, she just ends the conversation or acts like I am physically attacking her. So the conversation ends.
NOTHING will EVER move my wife from being a JW. Thankfully I have my kids out of the abusive environment which literally did harm them mentally. They don't go to the WTS meetings or assemblies any more.
But change the blood doctrine?
Meh.
They'll carry on as usual.
