by MIADanny 33 Replies latest jw friends
As the finger said - and she definitely would not be having sex with him.
BTW - don't be fooled by the non-conservative attitude of young one at parties - that will soon be stamped out. Once your girlfriend is Baptised, "unchristian" behaviour will have very tough sanctions that could result in expulsion from the congregation (which is a good thing) and shunning from her family (that's a bad thing!).
Welcome to the board!
The consensus here seems pretty clear...you're in a bit of a no-win situation and my heart goes out to you. Although I have to wonder at the 2 year thing. Either you have remarkable self control or there's some stuff going on that her elders wouldn't be too happy about - even though it seems like she's in a pretty 'liberal' congregation. Perhaps she is in a position where learning some of the objectionable facets of the watchtower society will help open her eyes, but it would have to be done in a very delicate fashion with little drops of truth at a time.
I wish you all the best!
Let start the old fashioned way!
1) Does she drink
2) Do her parents know about her relationship with you
3) Are you having sex
3b) Does she give head
4) Does she have any tattoos
5)Does she have a FB account
6) Does she wear sexy clothes?
If your answer to 2,3,6 is yes then you are a winner and it means that whilst she is a dub and unfortunately will come with some dub mentality she is definitely not towing the party line! If you have yes for others you are still winning and really really doesn't tow the party line!
As an unbelieving mate I know the feeling of wanting to get them out, however sometimes it is better to maintain the status quo for the time. If you for yes to 2,3,6 and others of the questions above then she's not really hardcore, but attempts by you could push her that way.
She has to want out and can she live with the consequences of being out such as being shunned by family and friends, so on and so forth.
Next questions:
7) does she do field service or meetings on a regular basis or when given the option of you or FS /meeting are you first choice?
8) Does she celebrate your birthday others birthdays?
If the answer to one or both is yes again your a winner! You are held in higher regard than the FDS.
I would question why you are with her if you are going to use the "religion or me" routine. What if she was a hindu, or muslim or a satanic devil worshiper, would you be still trying to get her out? Ok she tried to get you to join "the dark side" but she is still with you so she must respect your choice of religion, so why do you not respect hers?
Two years is a short time? How old are you both? If things are going well then continue on, relax stick around, enjoy the sun!
Only you can make the choice.
MTTM
eta - started this about an hour ago but chaos broke out in the office so some of this has already been answered.
Continue getting informed here. Also, I recommend you to read "Crisis of Conscience" by Ray Franz, a former JW and former Governing Body of JWs (the leadership in New york). It may be too detailed for you, but suggest you to read as much as possible. Then, get your girlfriend to read it. If she won't read it, you'll see what you are up against. JWs are forbidden to read it because it is the facts of the workings of the Watchtower headquarters, its history, its doctrinal flip flops, its leadership.
Reply to Married to mob:
1) Does she drink Yes
2) Do her parents know about her relationship with you; Yes, her mom is not that crazy into it but goes to meetings
3) Are you having sex Yes, cant hold 2 years..lol
3b) Does she give head yes..but even like non JW not that often..lol
4) Does she have any tattoos no
5)Does she have a FB account yes
6) Does she wear sexy clothes? not really that much
7) does she do field service or meetings on a regular basis or when given the option of you or FS /meeting are you first choice? Yes she has started going more now, but usually when im at work anyways.
8) Does she celebrate your birthday others birthdays? no but she does the old go out to dinner the day before your b-day and have a cake with no candles. I have told her that this is still celebrating just finding a grey area in the rule.
Im 29 and she is 24. I think it is selfish of me to ask her to leave her religion or try to aske her to make a choice but we are at the point now where she is talking marriage and I know that i dont want to raise the kids JW or have become really strict with her religion and rule out all the fun stuff. so we are going to have to have that talk.
Sorry for the bad spelling I am doing a bit of multi tasking at work :-)
3) Are you having sex Yes, cant hold 2 years..lol
She will soon be an ex-JW, unless she's a good liar.
OK Start here http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/best-of/77159/1/The-Best-of-Im-married-to-or-dating-a-JW
While there are exceptions to every rule marrying a JW is hell. If she stays a JW she will never give up the hope that you will join her. If you have children she will do everything in her power to raise them as JWs.
As long as she is a JW there will always be conflict regarding her religion which she will infuriatingly insist is better than whatever you believe. She will not be allowed to marry in the kingdom hall. The elders will be a third party in the marriage, interfering whenever there is a problem. And she will always defer to their opinion over yours. Before you marry the elders will want to talk to her and will ask whether you have had sex yet. This means she will have to break it off with you, stop having sex or risk being tossed out. You might think this is a good thing but as too many here know it seems to make them want to go back and be a good JW even more.
My mother married a non-JW. Things were relatively fine until the wedding. When she realized he wasn't going to join her she became super JW. She tossed flowers that he bought her for her birthday in the garbage. Tore up cards for any holiday. Refused to celebrate anything with him - that included the day-before and day-after sort-of celebrations. She went to all the meetings even when it would conflict with some special event he wanted to go to.
Sadly my mother isn't unique as you will read in the link I made above. Read it. Very carefully follow the links. And then think very carefully about whether this is the life you want.
Some of the links go to what happens when you break up or divorce. Read those too because that is a good thing to keep in mind for the future
Good luck cuz you're going to need it
Well, sometimes a bit of positivity help.
My girlfriend is a born-in in a pretty hardcore JW family. After we began dating, we talked a lot about religion. Today she is out. It can work, but it all depends on her. If you are going to make an attemt, you must study their theology HARD, you must know it better than them. you got to make her agree to what lying means, and you got to be able to show how they have lied again and again and you got to show her support and love so there is a chance she will take it into her hearth. It wont be easy, but sometimes it can be done.
I would recommend you to get her to agree that she should study the religion before she get dipped and have to buy the theology, lock stock and barrels, for all her life. Then make her agree to do some of the following 5 studies:
1) Have they allways been honest in what they have written?
2) What are their history? What do they believe, how did they come to believe it and has it changed?
3) Is the blood doctrine consistent and build on the bible?
4) Is 607 really the right year for the fall of jerusalem?
5) What is mind control and what kind of groups does it apply to?
but before the studies, talk with her if she will be willing to study non-wt puplications. Talk to her about what it means to have the truth, if it is okay to research it, and if she should have a good answer to all rational, serious questions you ask her.
Also, make sure you know where the bodies are burried in all 5 questions, and make sure you make her commit to the part of the WT positions you can blow out of the water, it will make it harder for her to ratinalize it away later.
eg. in case of the history lesson, try to see if you can make her commit to something like: "Well, jehovah selected them in 1914 because they was preaching that jesus would return shortly" (in fact, they thought he had returned 40 years prior!) or "If someone said that so and so would happend in a specific year, for example that armageddon would begin, and they also said they was Gods channel of communication, and it didnt happend, yah that would be a false prophecy according to the bible".
Read everything she gives you vigeously. The best would be if she want you to write to Bethel or talk with some elders. If you pick your fights right, you can trash them pretty good. They will respond in a predictable manner, and you can prep her for that to.
but first and foremost, show her you love he and you really care for her. You are asking her to give up a very big part of her, and admit that she and all she know are dead wrong. Its not an easy thing, and even if you succeed there will be elders crawling up your assess trying to DF her, and her family will likely act shitty even though the are decent people.
Oh and by the way: If you are an atheist, i would seriously recommend you to have a good talk with her about how rational the whole "God-loves-us-but-he-is-gonna-kill-us-all-over-a-talking-snake-and-some-magic-fruit"- thing really is. The christians here will disagree with that approach, but talking about how silly that whole concept is actually made a great impression on my girlfriend.
Fine.... I will be the optimist !
Hubby and I were yall at 24 and 19.........
If you REALLY REALLY love her and envision a lifetime together.....
Start asking leading questions....... don't argue with her ever, rather limit yourself to politely disagreeing....... (keeping a list of agree/disagree points to be revisited from time to time to see if there are any inroads)
Tell her you love her but cannot understand why she believes as she does other than this being her 'tradition', the way she was raised versus her ever really having made sure all things
When she disagrees, suggest yall do two studies....... you doing it 'her way'... which will mean books like 'Bible Teach', 'God's Love', Ministry School and the ODbook..... and your way.... reviewing the works/periods of Russell, Rutherford, Knorr and so onward to present truths.
Dangle the carrot of possibility ...... afterall it is possible you could convert because possible covers a myriad of situations versus the probablility of you converting which in reality are very slim to none
Here are some links where you can download the 'old stuff'....... (don't forget to read through Freeminds and JWfacts too- links below links!)
http://www.archive.org/details/WatchTowerBibleandTractSocietyofPennsylvaniaWatchTowerpubs_0
http://www.a2z.org/wtarchive/archive.htm#magazines
http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/downloads/
Here are three on Piratebay too....
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4215561/Watchtower_periodic_(Golden_Age__Consolation__Kingdom_News)
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4214005/Watchtower_Pubs_1870-1960
Chasson has a very nice collection online as well....
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/128918/1/Consolation-on-Demand
_____________________
and for consideration after she 'wakes up'..... and wants to remain a Xian.... http://www.brci.org/
Best Wishes
