In a close by town, the KH is not being used because of water damage and a local hotel has the "privilege" of hosting the Memorial event. I'm thinking of going there tonight at that bar which is close to where the function room is and having some good red wine. That would be a sight! Me "partaking" in my own little way.
Give Reasons Why The "Memorial" Is A Sham To You
by minimus 32 Replies latest jw friends
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PSacramento
Who was Jesus Talking too....
A very good question, directly it was the 12 ( Yes, Judas was there) but Jesus always did and said things in a far broader sense than that, even if for his closest friends he had a more special relationship with them.
Paul makes it clear that the "breaking of bread" is for all and that he associate the breaking of bread with the body of christ.
John;s version of the "last supper" bread and wine weating makes it clear tha it is crucial to give thanks and remember Jesus's sacrifice and to "eat of his fleash and drink of his blood" is what makes one a "Christian", though that is a metaphore of course.
Jesus may have spoken and shared that moment with his closest freinds, but at least John and Paul felt the need to apply that to others.
Of course maybe that is the point, that the "last Supper" should be shared by those we love the most and not just "everyone", perhaps the point is to make it a "family" affair, on ALL levels.
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maninthemiddle
Mad Dawg,
I think that John 6: makes it clear that it was metaphorical.
The words in 1 cor 11:26 were Pauls'. In fact the only references to anyone other than the 12 partaking in this fasion were always Paul's.
Jesus did not tell his Apotles to go teach others to do the same as they did that night.
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minimus
"Keep doing this""....what and who? I know. I know. The Aninted & Great Crowd.
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Mad Dawg
MITM,
True, Jesus was speaking in metaphors. This fact has no bearing on my comments. The last supper was a type of metaphor called an object lesson. Today’s observance is also an object lesson.
He was still talking to far more than just the 12. People left because they did not like what He said, not because it did not apply to them. In fact, their complaining shows they understood His words to be directed to them. Show me where it says they left because it did not apply to them.
I thought that the words in 1Cor are Jehovah’s. Are you saying that only the words in red can be trusted? Or, are you saying that the words in red are more the word’s of Jehovah than the words in black? Do you ignore everything after the Gospel of John? Are you saying that with the passing of the 12, nobody should have done it since?
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PSacramento
...I thought that the words in 1Cor are Jehovah’s...
Never once does Paul use the term "Jehovah" and the words Paul speaks are his own as guided by the Holy Spirit.
Even at times Paul mentions that a certain opinion is his only but that he believes he is guided by the HS.
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Chalam
Just to banish any lingering myths that only the 12 disciples should partake, or indeed only 144, 000 read these.
Luke 22:20 (New International Version)
20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
Hebrews 9:15 (New International Version)
15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
Romans 11:27 (New International Version)
27 And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins."Ephesians 2:12 (New International Version)
12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.
Hebrews 13:20 (New International Version)
20 May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep
Thus, anyone not in the new covenant has no eternal inheritance and are still dead in their sins, without hope. The covenant is open to all, get under it! Revelation 3:20 Matthew 7:7-8 Anyone who passes the bread and wine does thisHebrews 10:29 (New International Version)
29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Blessings, Stephen -
maninthemiddle
He was still talking to far more than just the 12. People left because they did not like what He said, not because it did not apply to them. In fact, their complaining shows they understood His words to be directed to them. Show me where it says they left because it did not apply to them.
52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"
Sounds like they took it too literal to me.
I thought that the words in 1Cor are Jehovah’s.
As someone who does not belive the bible to be totally inerrant, no, they are Paul's words.
Are you saying that only the words in red can be trusted? Or, are you saying that the words in red are more the word’s of Jehovah than the words in black? Do you ignore everything after the Gospel of John?
no, not ignore, but I do take it as less literal to modern life. I don't feel that just because Paul told the early congreations something, that it has to be applied that same to us. The scripture we are talking about for instance, Paul speaks in such a way that I belive the congreation was practicing a form of the memorial or communion, what ever you want to call it. but, does that mean we HAVE to do that now, or could it mean that the action really didn't matter but the motive?
Are you saying that with the passing of the 12, nobody should have done it since?
yes, that is exactly what I am saying.... but can you partake if you choose to? I see no harm in this, it is the commanding (by Clergy and/or the GB) of others to partake or not to partake that I see as the problem.
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minimus
My friend who is going to the Memorial tonight, because he tries to please his JW family, just called me an hour ago, DRUNK. He's going with a real big buzz on. (I hope he doesn't drink while there).
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Heaven
The Memorial does not follow the Bible as Chalam pointed out and the fact that the JWs profess to follow the Bible demonstrates a direct conflict here.
Regarding following the Bible, I think it is also a sham to say that people who don't partake won't have eternal life. This is the same thing the JWs tried to do to me years ago when they said I wouldn't gain eternal life if I didn't hand out their magazines. This is a fear based attempt at forcing people into compliance.
There are tons of people who will be born on this Earth, live their entire lives, and die without ever having read the Bible or ever having heard of this ancient guy called 'Jesus'. And even those of us that have, a lot of us don't buy into it because of how we've been lied to and deceived not to mention the contradictions and complete lack of proof in and surrounding the Bible.
It all seems too narrow minded for me. I see Christianity as just another exclusive 'religious' club... just like all the other 'faiths' out there. For me, personally, I just don't like limiting myself this way.
I'm not into cannibalism... symbolic or otherwise.