As Witnesses we were Trained to be Obedient - Rather than Show Love

by flipper 37 Replies latest jw friends

wobble

It is easy to sling derogatory remarks at the poor benighted people still trapped in the Cult by mind control, but most on this board were EXACTLY the same not so long ago.
I remember being semi-obedient (that was about all I could ever manage) to the shunning policy. I always said a cheery greeting to DF'd people, at the Hall or in public, I reasoned that we were to treat them "as a man of the nations" in other words with civility, but I was looked on with disapproval for so doing.
The problem with me was, as with most Dubs, I equated obedience to the rules of the WT as obedience to God.
I always tempered that attitude with following my own conscience as based on my reading of scripture, hence never following anything very closely that the WT asked, but I felt guilty about that !
I felt I should quash the natural rebel within me, because that is what we were told, time and again,.
I am glad I never did, once a Reb. always a Reb. for me.
Wobble
Mad Sweeney

Obedience is what it is ALL about, Flipper. The only reason for the mind control is for behavior control.
snowbird

Does anyone remember the Awake? article about a young boy who drowned en route to a convention?
The family went on to the 3-4 day convention!
Zealous JW's that my sister and I were, this shocked even us!
Sylvia
Hiding Questioner


Here is an example.
Not too long ago I attended a public talk where the speaker proudly told the audience what attitude about life a JW should display when compared to a “worldly” attitude. He then proceeded to tell the story of a father traveling by ship with his baptized son, who was in his late teens. With them was the son’s friend (also in his late teens) who was unbaptised, but studying. Suddenly a storm came and tossed the two boys overboard. The father then had to make a very difficult and important decision, as he only had enough time and one life preserver to use for any effort to save a life. Thus, he had to pick one of the boys to save.
Which one should he choose to save? Why, of course, the unbaptised boy. Yes, the speaker proceeded to tell the audience that the father yelled out to his son, as his son watched his father throw the life preserver to his friend “You know I love you son with all my heart but understand that I will see you in the new system but your unbaptised friend at this time needs me more then you need me. I love you son!” Yes, his son perishes and the unbaptised friend lives, gets baptized, becomes a Regular Pioneer and later becomes a CO. The audience was moved to tears over the wisdom displayed by the father and the wonderful outcome that resulted by his display of “love”. I just sat there in total shock and disbelief over the cult logic of what I was hearing. Has anyone else heard this JW legion? What do you think?
HQ
GLTirebiter

Flipper, your story about the lady having a heart attack at the assembly says much about the Watchtower. What would the leader of almost any other religious group say in that situation?
"Brothers and Sisters, Sister Faithful has just suffered a serious medical emergency. While she is being cared for by the paramedics, let's offer a prayer for her and her family. Oh Heavenly Father..."
flipper

Thanks for all the great comments ! Been working and got detained by a situation yesterday - which I'll post a thread about on private section in awhile. I'll respond to pg. 1 first.
JOURNEY-ON- It truly is bizarre like you say that witnesses toss aside their as they call it " emotional vulnerability " to perform their alleged duties and functions to the neglect of caring for others. It is sick like you say.
LONG HAIR GAL- Yes, it was an awful experience to see them carry on functions while a sister died. I also went through the witnesses attempting to control me sometimes, try to make me feel guilty for not attending meetings if sick or with extra work. I was like you- I didn't listen to them. I essentially gave them the proverbial middle finger in my mind . LOL !
DGP- Yes, your story DOES go along with the thread indeed ! The person you loved asked you to go away due to thinking they were obedient to the WT society by not being with a non-witness. That person did not follow their heart to continue being with you . Followed the cults demands - not her heart. I'm sorry you went through that my friend. I do hope you find love with someone new . Take care.
MINDMELDA- What a sad experience that this JW woman you mentioned had pneumonia because she overtaxed herself with service and meetings and wouldn't stop ! It's crazy ! I was also put down like you for missing meetings due to colds , etc. I think it was horrendous that witnesses told you NOT to grieve that much after your baby died ! Just awful. These people are trained to be devoid of any and all emotions which would cause them to be normal, or feel normal grief. Just disgusting. I'm so sorry your baby died. My heart goes out to you.
TROUBLED MIND- Wow. I guess this thread DID hit home with you. That is just awful how your husband was treated and made to feel guilty about missing meetings after losing 5 relatives in death. THAT'S the point I'm making ! These JW's feel NO GUILT whatsoever in making us feel bad ! I also knew some sisters who were very self righteous little pricks of a pioneer. And whatever happened to just caring and showing love like the old guy you mentioned that mowed the kingdom hall lawn on his own - just because he wanted to help ? Maybe the elders asked him to stop because it showed them up as negligent in taking care of kingdom hall maintenance themselves ! Jerks. Those old sisters you mentioned sounded like pretty cool gals ! Too bad they were made to feel guilt over wearing pant suits for crying out loud. It's amazing the " rules " elders will make on their own opinions.
TRUTHSEEKERIAM- It is disgusting and awful how the elders interrogated your daughter about being molested instead of showing love and support to you, your husband, and child. It is freakishly bizarre how MUCH the organization stresses duty and obedience over showing love and compassion. I'm truly sorry your daughter and you folks experienced that. Please be assured of our caring here on the board friend.
GARY NEAL- Yes in a good majority of witnesses - being cold and calloused is par for the course unfortunately.
OUTLAW- Nice ironic humor there bro. It is very true though what you say- as witnesses we had to obey by shunning our familiies, beating our kids at the kingdom hall to keep them quiet, refuse blood tranfusions to family members and watch them die, and if we DID NOT do these things out of obedience to the GB and WT society- we would die at Armageddon ! Yeah- I thnk that about sums it up pretty concisely in a neat tidy form.
MAN IN BLACK- I'm so sorry about your mother dying. Yet not one friend stopping by to see you or give a card to you ? Really sad. Yet they wanted you regular at meetings and field service. Stands to figure. THAT is what I'm talking about ! The leaders of this mind control cult ONLY have duty in mind- not showing true compassion and love. I'm glad you got out Man in Black- we care here on the board. At least more authentically than WITNESSES ever did !
WT WIZARD- I agree- I saw many times when meetings should have been cancelled due to dangerous driving conditions due to snow and heard of accidents happening needlessly. I can't tell you how many times I attended meetings hearing about 15 to 20 different people COUGHING loudly during a meeting in winter ! It would sound like a damned hospital infirmary or something ! But THAT is how guilty the witnesses made us feel by insisting we be at meetings- although half dead !
CRAZY2TRY- So your mother-in-law was studying with this lady who died in the car wreck- yet your mother-in-law would NOT go to the funeral or visit the family to show her condolences ? Jesus Christ. Just because the deceased lady had not attended meetings regularly ? Wow. I would say that is the epitome of a " hardcore " detached witness. I hope your mother-in-law WAS wracked with guilt. I hope you made her think.
AK-JEFF- I too remember hearing witnesses say they had to drag themselves out in service because they didn't feel like going out. And it was the FEAR of not going out and being interrogated about it tobe made to feel GUILTY for not going out- that kept many going in service. Yes- ALL mind control cults are sick- but the Jehovah's Witnesses & Scientologists I think top the bill as some of the SICKEST cults around.
WITNESS007- Yes- ALL witnesses are robots. They leave their brain when they agree to be witnesses .Or are " controlled " or coerced to become witnesses- more accurately.
FARKEL- Good point. Rutherford was a character. And not a GOOD one at that. The guy was an egomaniac , drunkard, and control freak . And those were his BETTER qualities ! LOL ! He did indeed change the character of the organization and drive the trend towards lack of love downward and emphasize obedience more abundantly. Can anyone say " Hitler " ? I think it's an accurate metaphor
flipper

O.K. now for pg. 2 replies .
WOBBLE- I don't think anybody posting here is " slinging derogatory remarks " to be mean spirited - people are just sharing unjust, unloving experiences to emphasize the FACT that yes- these people WERE mind controlled by the leaders of the WT society to show a lack of love and be obedient to the neglect of showing compassion. I asked for people's experiences- and they gave them to me. If that involves exposing injustice I believe that's a GOOD thing - nobody is doing it to " sling derogatory remarks " to hurt anybody - it's just that these experiences ARE so awful - yes- it involves some pretty derogatory conduct BY the witnesses . It needs to be exposed ! I make no apologies for exposing it. HOWEVER that needs to be accomplished.
That being said, I'm glad you didn't squash the rebel in you my friend. I was independent spirited and didn't squash my rebel spirit either. I truly believe that assisted people like you and me to leave the JW cult in time.
MAD SWEENEY- Exactly. I agree with you. Mind control is about behavior control. To the ultimate. And why the WT society demands obedience.
SNOWBIRD- I remember somebody on the board posting that experience Sylvia about the boy drowning and his family going on to attend the district convention. Pretty twisted if you ask me ! I just don't see HOW that family could even ATTEND ! Whatever happened to mourning the death of loved ones like a normal human being does ?
HIDING QUESTIONER- Wow ! Just wow. What a hideous illustration that speaker gave of the father NOT saving the baptized son, but saving the unbaptized young man ! Man oh man. That is pur disgusting cultspeak if I ever heard it ! I can see why you were nauseated ! And I bet all the witnesses in the audience bobbed their heads forward like JW bobblehead dolls ? Am I right ? Sick stuff. Where DO these people come from in this cult ?
GL TIREBITER- Good point you make. I mean- The LEAST thing the elder giving the assembly part on the platform could have done is stop the proceedings and say a prayer for the sister . I mean- it was only 30 minutes until lunch break. He very EASILY could have said- " Friends, we have a medical emergency , it would be appropriate to show respect and break for lunch now. " Don't you think it would have been a better example to the audience in showing love and compassion to do that ? I truly think so
Quandry

I think the story told at Hiding Questioner's KHall sounds fishy. Details like the name of the person are, of course, never given, so there is no way to corroborate the facts.
It sounds eerily similar to the "story" told about the train switchman who's son is on the track and he must decide whether to derail the train or save his son. Of course, he switches the track so that all on the train are saved.
My husband, who had exhausted himself as an elder, began having medical problems. He began having tests at the hospital. When they check blood sugar, you must fast then take sugary drinks. He found out he had diabetes, and began medications. He also was on new blood pressure medication, which made him dizzy and fall down. He also had cancerous polyps removed from his colon...this after taking drinks that, again, you have to fast for, and then are ill after. Not to mention having the polyps cut out and bleeding from that. It was first stage colon cancer.
Since he had been the WT study conductor, a substitute had to be called several times. The elder body took my husband into the back room and told him some thought he "wasn't handling his illness correctly." WHAT? I suppose he should have scheduled being ill around the meeting times.....
flipper

I don't know- but if Hiding Questioner tells me he attended a talk where this illustration was used - I believe him. I have no reason to doubt it. If you heard another illustration similar to this using a " train illustration " - it might be another version which a circuit overseer or an elder has embellished a bit. Having been in the organization 44 years- believe me- I heard MANY different " urban legend " illustrations used by elders that they pulled out of their own butts on the fly ! LOL ! Could be completely believable for sure !
I am so sorry your husband went through so much suffering my friend. That is awful the physical pain he must have gone through. And then to top it off by being " guilted " by fellow elders - I bet it made him just want to throw his hands up in the air and say " Screw it ! " I'm glad you got out of the JW cult. Did your husband exit the witnesses as well ? Or is he still in ? Hang in there, I hope your husband is doing better now
mindmelda

Oh, another thing, when my baby died, and I was in the hospital, while I naturally got sympathy from Witnesses who were long time friends(because they were my friends and there was personal feeling there, of course), I was told by the elders that Witnessing to the hospital staff and nurses and such about the resurrection would make me feel better and cure my grief.
I actually did that, (although I was in a kind of shock and actually very numb at that point...if you'd told me painting myself orange and dancing in the lobby would make me feel better, I'd have done that too, I'm sure) and found myself chastizing one poor nurse for assuring me that my child was "with God", because Witnesses don't believe that.
Thinking on that now, I'd like to kick myself for being such a tool. How ridiculous that was to be some robotic messenger for an oddball religion at that time. I was also encouraged by the elders not to accept the psychological help offered to me at the time by the doctors and hospital staff, grief counseling. Ironically, I ended up doing it years later because I'd really never been helped through the grief in a proper manner.
But, sure, brainwashed as all hell, and it's one of the reasons I waiver between feeling very sorry for JWs still in it, and wanting to punch them in the face, sometimes.
Mostly the leadership, though. And a few elders, although it's nice to see that some of them bail on this nonsense eventually and come to their senses too.

As Witnesses we were Trained to be Obedient - Rather than Show Love

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