Will you be writing a follow up here?
I had to hurt my kids this weekend... it sucks
by Aussie Oz 40 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
LittleSister
Oz don't feel guilty you had to lay it on the line for the ultimate benefit of your kids. In the end they know that you love them and will fight for them rather than backdown for a quiet life.
I know you don't want to put pressure on your children, but they needed to understand that they have to support the agreement if they want to keep a relationship with you. Overtime your ex's tactics may well backfire as they come to see that the time they get to spend with you is much happier and less stressful than the guilt filled cult manipulation they experience with her.
With much love,
LittleSis
-
Black Sheep
You get a big 'thumbs up' from me Oz.
I see some good advice from your supporters too.
Cheers
Chris
-
tec
I don't think there is much I can add that has not already been said. I've been following your story also, and I find it heart-wrenching.
Initially, I was worried that you were putting undue pressure on your kids. I quickly reconsidered. You DID set a good example for them by standing up for your rights. You did the right thing by reminding them of how hard you've worked to be able to see them more, and in showing them the legal agreement. By taking the choice away from your daughter, who legally does not have one, the guilt she might feel now and in the future is also taken away. Your son is a tougher matter, but you did the right (even if somewhat painful) thing by making your feelings known to him in a sincere manner. Everyone respects and responds to honesty, and kids are no exception.
And the sooner you let your ex know that these manipulations aren't going to work, the better. It will hopefully save you a great deal of heartache and frustration down the road - especially since you are legally in the right.
I would caution you NOT to bash your ex-wife in any way. Your kids will be able to see her manipulations for themselves, even if it doesn't always seem like it to you. Bashing their mother will only hurt them, and your relationship with them. At the same time, both your son and your daughter need you to be firm in this matter. They're going to be torn because of your ex-wife's actions, but seeing that you are not going to change your mind gives them real stability in an unstable situation.
For what its worth, I think you did very well. Anyone who has heard you speak of your children can tell how much you love them, and you already know to keep them involved with fun things outside of the cult world they are exposed to at their mother's home.
You're a good dad, AussieOz.
Tammy
-
Scott77
I am sorry if this seems disjointed, i just typed as i thought. I just needed to unload to people out there who may be interested and see how so called good jehovahs witnesses are prepared to damage children in their misguided quest to save them from the 'devil' other parent. Aussie No need to appologise. You are a good parent who is doing his best for the interest of your children the opposition, manipulative and misguidance of your ex not withstanding. Like tec , Mr. Flipper and what others all have stated, I donot want to add much except to point out the need to document all inflactions. Your attorney and judge will like to review them if possible. In meantime, figure out ways to make your kids more happy from time to time. Do they want to see harry porter movie? I think you are doing good in this respect. We are rooting for you. Personally,Iam not a parent and do not have kids. However, what ex JW parents have advised is good because they come from experiences. Hang in there. Be firm and consistent in every respect.
-
GLTirebiter
Well done, Aussie Oz! You did the right thing standing up for yourself against you ex's "passive-agressive" power play. The thing to be careful of is to never say anything negative about your ex in front of the children, no matter how much she deserves it. Not only will she and her lawyer try to hold that against you, but also teenagers, being teenagers, will figure out how to use that conflict to their advantage. You are the parent, and you can't let your kids try to control the situation by playing one parent off against the other.
-
Michelle365
Oz, FWIW, I think you did the right thing as well. It's hard, believe me I know. I'm going through a lot of the same as you know. Have you read Divorce Poison? Here is a link to it on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Divorce-Poison-Protecting-Parent-Child-Vindictive/dp/0060934573/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272379687&sr=8-1
It was reccomended to me and I've found it to be very helpful and I've only just started reading it. I know we've been taught to never say anything bad about the other parent and always take the high road and such. But this book explains that there are times when we need to put our foot down and ways to do it without bringing the kids in the middle.
((((HUGS)))) PM me anytime you need to vent!
-
Scully
I don't see how telling your kids THE TRUTH is equal to laying a guilt trip on them.
Sometimes the right thing to do is also the most difficult thing to do. Standing up to your children's mother's cult-driven manipulation and standing up FOR your relationship with your children is the right thing to do.
Your children need to see your ex's behaviour for exactly what it is: manipulation. The law is on your side. Don't ever give in and allow her to trample your fundamental right to have a relationship with your children. She is using the cult to alienate the children from you, and manipulating their lives in order to do so.
If you present it to her in such a way that perhaps it will give her some freedom to pursue her religious activities or even social activities independently while the children are in your care, she may eventually start enjoying the weekends to herself.
I would also hazard a guess that this lunch with the CO would involve him (an authority figure among JWs) verbalizing negative JW rhetoric about Unbelieving™ or Apostate™ or Disfellowshipped™ family members (you), which could be construed as further attempts at alienation of the children from you. This is the sort of disrespect that you need to protect your children from.
The rule in our home is that we will not permit anyone to disrespect either of our children's parents in the presence of the children. For instance, the congregation announced that Mr Scully Disassociated™ himself several years ago (he did nothing of the sort). My JW parents drew a line in the sand, stating that Mr Scully was no longer welcome in their home, but I was welcome to visit with the children. I visited once, and after observing disrespectful remarks about Mr Scully by them, in the presence of my children, I decided I could not expose my children to that anymore and have not made further visits. They don't get to exclude and disrespect the father of my children, and the price for their disrespect was that they don't get to see their grandchildren.
I'm sure you'd agree that it's difficult enough to have the respect of one's teenagers in the current social environment, but to permit a situation where disrespect for a parent is actively encouraged and cultivated, has to be curtailed in the strongest fashion possible. Document these incidents and keep a record for your legal representative. Your ex-wife can have sanctions imposed upon her by the court, and further incidents could cause her to be found in contempt of court. Just because her religion requires her to view you in a negative light, it is not her business to impose those views on impressionable children, with the aim of alienating the children from you.
-
life is to short
You so totally did the right thing. Saying no is hard and I like you hate confontation so bad, but it just missed up your life you do not stand up for yourself. You really helped your kids this weekend.
LITS
-
Aussie Oz
Thankyou all so much for the kind words and wisdom, much born of your own pain. Here is post 1 of replies...
locatus: I am sorry that yours did not have a happy ending. My dad lost us kids in 1972 and had no way to fight the watchtower. Thankyou for following my story and for the wishes... it means a lot.
Heaven: it sure takes practice to say no! I learnt it and i will definatly teach my kids to as well. I will tell them it is their right to say NO!
Only me: I will stick to it firmly. That last saturday taught me and gave me that conviction. Yes, i will not and have never attacked the mother, only said stuff when it was obvious that she was manipulating them and have always looked for good things to say about her.
Da Cheech: thankyou, i realize now that i may well have saved them through what i did, and if i do nothing that indeed i will be 'trash'.
Quandry: That is good advice, I have always endeavored not to villify the mother. Always make sure i praise her mothering abilities and only been critical of her behavior at times like this, never critical of her as a person. She will recieve a letter through my lawyer about cooperation and it will contain praise for her being willing to make this agreement, but also warning not to keep setting up alternative 'fun' for the kids to have to choose over. As for bridges, i wont burn any for the exact reason you mention. Unfortunatly, she has always made the changes and i have seldom been 'allowed' to... so this must change too!
Snoozy: You are right about the fun activities and the kids and i have started to come up with ideas. Talking with them is important. I said to them that i had so much to share and teach them about life but would be careful not to make each visit a lecture day or they might stop comming! very sound advice.
Awsnap: yep, she fights dirty! She fights like the watchtower society. Thankyou for following my story as well. Its nice to know that the wider comunity does care!
Gayle: thankyou, i think they can see how important they are that i am in this for them. You are right too about questions... I have re-conected with my dad after he lost me for 22 years and the questions do come up... why didnt you fight for us dad???? I know and understand his reasons but still, i lost my dad when i needed him the most.
Mindmelder: so true. My dad reminded this past week that i am not just fighting the ex, i am fighting the watchtower society who have taught the twisted deceit that is used so well. He told me that they have no interest in me, the kids, or the ex in all this, only the control and perpetuation of their business. We are only a means to their end.
Awildflower: I document everything! I i know that there can be no turning back from this stand. I have done it once i can do it again and will be able to handle it better too.
Madsweeny: I never thought about it that way before, you are right. She set him up with a 'borg' thing! And a few tears is nothing compared to him reliving MY life!
Judge Rutherfraud: I will show them no quarter. It worked. there is a new me in this fight!
Asphereisnotacircle: Thankyou, it does suck!
Cantleave: my lawyer has been invaluable. She came to law in her 40s and as she says it '' became a human before becoming a lawyer". Without her i would not have been able to take my stand.
Darkpalgeis: that sucks real bad. Thats the tactic mine used as well and for a while i belived her too. It makes me angry that this dirty trick campaign is not isolated but mainstream.
Minimimi: all is being documented and this cease and desist will be in a forthcoming letter from my lawyer. Thankyou for the suggestion.
Troubled mind: that is a real good idea to let him know what to expect. The more informed he is about the pressures the more he will be in a postion to counter it. Thankyou.
Flipper: I shudder at the possibilty of twins! Your experience also balances out expectations. I must also be prepared for at least one if not both remaining captive... I always beleived that a JW mother would be a shining light in the comunity about the right way to handle child custody and visits... DUH! Now that we have done the mediation thing, if the agreement fails in the next 6 months or so, we go to court where various agencies get involved to monitor the families involved and interview the kids. I will keep you posted!