"Why Christianity Must Adapt -- Or Perish"

by leavingwt 53 Replies latest jw friends

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    Psac illustrates the problem with christianity and the other 2 abrahamic faiths: my way or the highway. The gospels of Thomas, Mary, Judas and other gospels, including the gnostics, tell the story of the diversity of belief about jesus in the early days after his death.

    This diversity was hammered out of existence by Irenenaus and others, more is the pity. Of course, the religion prospered and grew, but it was not the same group of beliefs/believers before the "cleansing" of "heretical" beliefs.

    Along comes Augustine and now even the meaning of the garden is changed, so that christianity has become a religion of shame and guilt, all redeemed by jesus.

    That was not what the early followers believed.

    So it is fine for Psac to say that the problem is with others, not christianity itself. This is a moot point; the christianity we have today is a mishmash of concepts molded over the centuries by the winners, the most powerful, the ones willing to burn at the stake those who disagreed with them.

    It just helps to remember where it all came from.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    PSac, respectfully, you confuse me sometimes. Is there any segment of Christianity you don't dislike, other than your own personal brand?

    Actually, I like pretty much ALL segments of Christianity, as long as they advocate what Jesus taught and prioritize Love.

    Matter of fact, I don't have issues with ANY religion of faith per say.

    What I dislike is when extremissim becomes the "mainstay" of a religion.

    I love the zeal and strength of the evangelicals, the beautiful rituals of the RCC and the Orthodox, I love the accepteance of most protestant denominations, I love the openess and outgoing faith of the Baptists.

    I don't like it when ANY part of those and other faiths become isolationists, when they advocate the "us VS them" mentality.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Pistoff,

    I don't recall I ever advocated "my way or the highway", quite the opposite I think, where did you get that idea?

  • awildflower
    awildflower

    PSac, it's hard for me to explain but I'll try. If you truly got the essence of Jesus as you say, then why on earth would you bare a title that he himself never did? The title "Christian" makes Jesus and all he was, look bad, IMO. When I hear the word "Christian" my mind immediately goes to religion and NOT Jesus, whom I don't have a problem with btw. Having a title of Christian, or any title for that matter, immediately divides people because then you have the "not Christians". I feel like Jesus wouldn't like this divisiveness over one little word. Why do Christians feel the need to say, "hey look at me, I believe Jesus was the Christ, but hey look at me, I live a debauched life anyways" (SOME). What's the point. If you get the essence of Jesus teachings, to me "Christians" would be a lot more silent about it and a lot more living by example.

    And all that stuff about, we are sinners and that's why God came as Jesus, and we can never measure up, etc........I'm so sick of that stuff. It gives me a bad feeling inside, it doesn't feel like love AT all, does that really make you feel better about life? Always being reminded that your a sinner and you can't possibly make your own life and just learn from different lessons without the fear of punishment. Good lord, I don't act like that with my kids. Everything is just lessons. When you know better you do better.

    I know it sounds like I'm putting you down but I'm really not. I just feel like underneath all the titles there is sooooo much more depth that people don't realize. It's all part of the journey.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    So it is fine for Psac to say that the problem is with others, not christianity itself. This is a moot point; the christianity we have today is a mishmash of concepts molded over the centuries by the winners, the most powerful, the ones willing to burn at the stake those who disagreed with them.

    Hmmm, well, I don't know if I agree 100% with that, much of Christianity we have now is reformist and they woudl hardly be called "the powerful".

    What about Christianity do you dislike or feel it needs changing?

    Not about Christians mind you, or the doctrines of certain religions, but Christianity.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    If you truly got the essence of Jesus as you say, then why on earth would you bare a title that he himself never did?

    Followers of Christ adopted that name shortly after his death. All it means is "Christ Follower." People name things, so that they can identify them.

    The title "Christian" makes Jesus and all he was, look bad, IMO.

    I fail to follow the logic here.

    When I hear the word "Christian" my mind immediately goes to religion and NOT Jesus, whom I don't have a problem with btw

    Jesus founded a religion. If you say he didn't then I would appreciate an explanation why.

    Having a title of Christian, or any title for that matter, immediately divides people because then you have the "not Christians".

    Jesus himself spoke of divisions between two kinds of people.

    BTS

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    awildflower,

    Thanks for clearing that up.

    What men have made of the teachings of Jesus is just that, what men have made of them.

    I call myself a Christian because, by its very definition, I am a believer in Christ as the Son of God, our Lord and Saviour.

    I use Christian because " a rose by any other name..."

    I think I see what you are saying though, the whole talk of sinners and such, it is very negative when viewed as you have portrayed it.

    The core belief I have is that of Love, love is the greatest of all things we have, it leads us to forgivness, tolerance and acceptence, it motivates us to be better and to be kinder to all.

    That to me is what Jesus taught more than anythign else, the omnipotence of love.

    I know that I am a sinner ( or someone with issues if you don't like that term) and I knwo that in Jesus I have someone that KNOWS that, wants to help me be better and does it out of love and asks nothing in returm and because of that, I do the same for all around me as best I can, not because I have to, or because I need to, but because Jesus' love fills me and compels me to.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    Everyone -- I'm enjoying your comments. Extremely busy today and I'm unable to respond to everyone, directly. Carry on!

  • awildflower
    awildflower

    Well PSac, then why don't you call yourself "Love" if that is really the essence of your belief here and you understand the controversy of the "Christian" title. Why not just walk around saying "I am love". If I heard someone say that, I would immediately think something very positive of that one and want to know more. That is if I needed some sort of title or when I met someone needed know that they had a title. Sticking to the word Christian is no different then , "I'm Islamic" or "I'm baptist", "I'm Mormon". When we hear those titles, before we even consider who the person is, we immediately conjure up in our minds what we know about that title. Because that's most human nature we could help that by changing these titles or better yet not carrying them at all. I'm pretty sure Jesus never meant to make a religion out of himself, man did that. I understand you have a deep love and admiration for him and our proud to call yourself Christian, but it's not necessary if you are living the essence of his teachings, IMHO.

    P.S. Didn't mean to bold that post, LOL.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Why not just walk around saying "I am love".

    Well, speaking for myself, I am not love. John however, wrote that "God is Love." I believe this.

    I'm pretty sure Jesus never meant to make a religion out of himself, man did that

    I'd like to know why you are so sure.

    BTS

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