by leavingwt 53 Replies latest jw friends
yeah- he said this, too.
saying #105-Jesus said:" He who knows father and mother will be called the son of a harlot."
Thanks Moshe, its been awhile since I read GOT and I don't recal all of it, but that part jumped into my head and I wasn't sure if that is where it was from.
Well, there is the last supper, the great commission, the washing of the feet and so forth.
You get "start an earth wide religion for me" from that? The Great Commission I'm assuming is "to go therefore and make disciples"? What is your definition of "make disciples"? Washing the feet, is a lesson, not a "church rule" he made up.
And I thought about what you and Tec have said about not being ashamed to be called a Christian. Is this true even with the bad rap Christianity/Religion gets? Even if it turns people away from the man you want them to recognize? Ok then WHY the title? What purpose does it serve really?
You get "start an earth wide religion for me" from that?
Awildflower, you are forcing me to quote:
Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.
Regarding the word "Christian." I really don't understand your prejudice against it.
Why do you call yourself "awildflower?"
Why do you call yourself by any name at all?
BTS
BTS, already addressed the great commision, so:
Washing the feet, is a lesson, not a "church rule" he made up.
No, not a chruch rule, but a rule on how they, the disciples, were to behave not only to each other but to those that they would preach to:
12 When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. “Do you understand what I have done for you?” he asked them. 13 “You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14 Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet. 15 I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. 16 I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. 17 Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.
There is also another passage in where Jesus says that they will not be like others that use titles or ones will be greater than others and such, I don't recall which passage it is now.
And I thought about what you and Tec have said about not being ashamed to be called a Christian. Is this true even with the bad rap Christianity/Religion gets? Even if it turns people away from the man you want them to recognize? Ok then WHY the title? What purpose does it serve really?
I actually rarely use the title unless someone asks me my religion.
I can see how you feel, personally I have issues with the term "born-again christian", not b ecause of what it represents but because the majority of BAC I know are assholes !
LOL !
But of course I understand that one does not judge all BAC because of the bad examples of a few.
Christianity will never perish because it is not alive. It is a belief system and will exist for as long as people believe in Christ.
Whether it will continue to make vast amounts of money for the catholic church is another matter. Still, they are so far ahead of the game they are unlikely to ever find themselves among the poor or the foolish to whom the kingdom of the heavens belongs.
Whether it will continue to make vast amounts of money for the catholic church is another matter. Still, they are so far ahead of the game they are unlikely to ever find themselves among the poor or the foolish to whom the kingdom of the heavens belongs.
One hopes that, sooner rather than later, people will wise up to that and organized religion, as a whole, will lose its grip on people.
Awildflower, you are forcing me to quote:
Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.
I'm not sure I would interpret that the same as you.
Regarding the word "Christian." I really don't understand your prejudice against it.
Why do you call yourself "awildflower?"
Why do you call yourself by any name at all?
You make a valid point. Awildflower serves a purpose but it's not "who" I am, my essence can't be named. "Christian" serves a purpose. I was just trying to understand the purpose and if what they claim is the purpose made since to me.
I'm not "prejudiced" against it, but wanted people to understand that you could live by Jesus example without a title, billions of people do.
What about Christianity do you dislike or feel it needs changing? Not about Christians mind you, or the doctrines of certain religions, but Christianity.
What is Christianity if it is not the people, or their doctrines?? Define it for me.
As I see it:
Worldwide, there is a group of believers who loosely think the same thing; that a jewish peasant who uttered cynic like sayings was killed by his own people, who somehow was a son of God or God himself, and that his living and dying somehow makes their life worth living; that they can live a life of beauty and grace somewhere else after they die, and that this life is just a practice run for the real life.
But in the days following Jesus, the belief about jesus did not follow along the lines of the apostles creed; some just thought he was wisdom, others thought he was a prophet. He did have some original ideas.
No evidence exists for the existence of the jesus the bible describes, or that he is coming back.
That doesn't mean that people do not find comfort and direction from the courage of what Jesus is said to have preached, or that he went against the grain of religious oppression and stagnancy of the day. The irony: modern christianity is the definition of stagnation. On another thread, Perry defends his (christian) view that the earth is 6000 years old. Why? Because to him, the words of the Bible are LITERAL and he can't meld the 2.
How would i change christianity?
1. By publicizing modern textual, form and source criticism of the OT and the NT; more people take the gospels at their word than otherwise, but by doing so we misunderstand both what they are and what kind of social situation they came from. But then that has been done, and the devout christians call the scholars atheist, ungodly, satanic, insert your own insult here. Most priests/pastors have background in the real history of the bible, but do not talk about it from the pulpit.
2. STOP making life and death decisions and stop shunning people because of what you think Jesus or Paul said; chances are very good they did not say them.
Jesus may have founded a religion, ultimately, but what I think we're asking is if was intentional? Was he consciously starting what we today call, Christianity?
I'd have to ask how could he have known that what was going to be, eventually or represent all the differing things it does today?
Only supernatural explanation could account for that, some sort of superhuman prescience or foreknowledge of the future.
