Perry,
You stated: "4. Neither you nor anyone else has given any plausible explanation how something can come from nothing."
Excelent point! So where did your god come from?
Is Darwinism True?
by Perry 71 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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jgnat
For those who are interested, there's a facebook group, "We can find 1,000,000 people who DO believe in Evolution before June". There's the counter group as well.
Having restored faith in my reason, I am finding that Occam's Razor resolves most dilemmas. The simplest explanation is most likely true. If it takes millions of years for light to reach us from the stars, the earth is millions of years old. Dinosaurs were around before man. Fossils are really, really old and creatures walked the earth that do not exist today. Animals adapt through the generations to their new environment.
Those who fear evolution, I find, fear that it's truths might overturn their belief in the bible. Why try and pound the bible in to a scientific text? Can't the bible be valuable without being proven "scientifically accurate" in all it's particulars?
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Perry
Excelent point! So where did your god come from?
He is the where, being Omnipresent. Timeless, self existing ...unlike the universe.
jnat,
The simplest explanation is most likely true. If it takes millions of years for light to reach us from the stars, the earth is millions of years old. Dinosaurs were around before man.
If God is timeless, being "the beginning and the end" how can time be used as an indication of age when he is involved? (especially from His point of view) When the bible says that God "stretched out" the heavens why should I conclude that God did not use time as one of his instruments of creation when that very characteristic is included in his definition as God?
I agree that the simplest explanation is most likely true. Which is simpler: That the interdependent systems of a cell that are all needed at the same time to function are the end product on an unexplainable process where elements "knew" in advance that they would be needed for a future unknown function?; Or, that God created them together intelligently?
What is there that would prompt me to set aside straightforward biblical explanations like some of my Christian friends do?
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jgnat
If God is timeless, being "the beginning and the end"...When the bible says that God "stretched out" the heavens why should I conclude that God did not use time as one of his instruments of creation ..?
That is a very complex explanation for a simply observed phenomena.
...Which is simpler: That the ... cell ... are the end product on an unexplainable process ...Or, that God created them together intelligently?
You will note that I did not include origins in my list of knowables. Knowledge of God is an act of faith, not an observable fact. A skeptic or a scientist cannot swallow whole the existence of God when they draw conclusions from observable fact. That must remain in the realm of the unknowable.
What is there that would prompt me to set aside straightforward biblical explanations...?
I am pretty sure the legends and stories are derived from real events. Gripping stories survive the test of time. There was a boat; there was a flood. Not a world-wide flood; there is no evidence of that. And it would have been impossible to populate all the creatures of the earth in a boat situated in the Middle East. Shrinking the text to the context in which it was created, all the "known world" could have experienced a devastating flood, and the creatures of the middle east been gathered up for protection. If such an event happened world-wide as we know it today, why didn't the kangaroos take the opportunity to repopulate new areas? How did the Dodo bird get itself exterminated except on a single small island, and if so, where are all the Dodo skeletons populating it's route? Nevertheless, the story is heroic and instructive.
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Perry
Knowledge of God is an act of faith, not an observable fact.
Not the kind of knowlege that I have or that the apostles had:
This information is offered with the hope that YOU can come to KNOW the Lord personally.
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
1 John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. (who resides inside of us according to Gal. 2: 20 - Christ liveth in us)
1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. - Very important to know.
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
God reveals himself to all believers and makes their calling sure. If this has not happened to you, I reccommend that you ask God to do this. I asked about a year after I exchanged my life for Christ, and it was dramatic. Wife did the same and got a less dramatic but equally sure response. You can and should KNOW, having moved beyond simple faith. It is very observable for the individual from the testimonies I've heard as well as from my own experience. -
OnTheWayOut
I know I said I was done with you, but I had to return to you what you served out to others such as me:
Excelent point! So where did your god come from?
He is the where, being Omnipresent. Timeless, self existing ...unlike the universe.
So you are not going to answer?
Okay, I will step out again.
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tec
Perry, I haven't commented on your threads yet, but I just wanted to clarify something.
An observable fact is something that others can see and verify. Others can not see and verify the knowledge that you personally have. That's why knowledge of God is based on faith.
Tammy
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Pistoff
Robert Bass, PHD, was associated with Velikovsky; here is information about Velikovsky.
His books use comparative mythology and ancient literary sources (including the Bible) to argue that Earth has suffered catastrophic close-contacts with other planets (principally Venus and Mars) in ancient times. In positioning Velikovsky among catastrophists including Hans Bellamy, Ignatius Donnelly, and Johann Gottlieb Radlof [2], the British astronomers Victor Clube and Bill Napier noted ". . . Velikovsky is not so much the first of the new catastrophists . . . ; he is the last in a line of traditional catastrophists going back to mediaeval times and probably earlier." [ 2 ] Velikovsky argued that electromagnetic effects play an important role in celestial mechanics. He also proposed a revised chronology for ancient Egypt, Greece, Israel and other cultures of the ancient Near East. The revised chronology aimed at explaining the so-called "dark age" of the eastern Mediterranean (ca. 1100 – 750 BCE) and reconciling biblical history with mainstream archaeology and Egyptian chronology.
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Pistoff
Can't the bible be valuable without being proven "scientifically accurate" in all it's particulars?
Exactly; the bible has important things to offer, but it is NOT history, and it is not inspired by god, and it is not infallible.
It is a prime example of the formation of beliefs over a long period of time, and of the development of dogma and doctrine by successive groups of people.
It is important as literature, and as the picture of a people who searched for answers about the randomness of life and the bad things that happened to them.
To take it literally is foolish and demeaning.