Stephen Hawking knows more about heaven than Jesus did. (page 6)

PSacramento

NVL,

There is NO SUCH thing as unbiased on EITHER side of the argument, that is why you need to read both and decide for yourself.

sir82

The religious leaders of his time saw what he did,

Or, at least the oldest existing Biblical manuscripts, hand-copied by untrained amateurs for centuries after the originals (and even those were written 3 or 4 decades after the events they report), make the claim that they did.

There is NO SUCH thing as unbiased on EITHER side of the argument

Hmmm....those original writers wouldn't have been biased when recalling in verbatim detail hours-long conversations of 40 years prior, would they? And the dozens of untrained amateur copyists writing through centuries of time never would have been tempted to "edit" what they were copying just to make it a bit clearer, would they? Nahh....

notverylikely

There is NO SUCH thing as unbiased on EITHER side of the argument, that is why you need to read both and decide for yourself.

Maybe, but there such things as "super biased", "totally biased" and "batshit crazy biased". I think this guy leans more towards "super biased"

PSacramento

Or, at least the oldest existing Biblical manuscripts, hand-copied by untrained amateurs for centuries after the originals (and even those were written 3 or 4 decades after the events they report), make the claim that they did.

I was referring to the Jewish Talmud of that time.

Hmmm....those original writers wouldn't have been biased when recalling in verbatim detail hours-long conversations of 40 years prior, would they? And the dozens of untrained amateur copyists writing through centuries of time never would have been tempted to "edit" what they were copying just to make it a bit clearer, would they? Nahh...

Perhaps, though there really isn't any evidence of that, at least not anything major.

Also, taking into account other historical pieces of the time, or before, ot after, and applying the same criteria to the bible that we apply to them, it is actually very good.

Maybe, but there such things as "super biased", "totally biased" and "batshit crazy biased". I think this guy leans more towards "super biased"

I've read A LOT more bias than him, Dawkins comes to mind and I am a fan of his work, even though I don't agree with him.

notverylikely

I've read A LOT more bias than him, Dawkins comes to mind and I am a fan of his work, even though I don't agree with him.

Dawkins doesn't pretend to not be biased.

sir82

The religious leaders of his time saw what he did,

I was referring to the Jewish Talmud of that time.

huh? The Jewish Talmud contains the reaction of the religious leaders to Jesus' miracles?

I did not know that.

Can you point me to a quotation, or give me a link?

PSacramento

Dawkins doesn't pretend to not be biased.

And a self professed Christian writing about Christ does?

The moment I read ANYTHING written by a christian about Christ I assume there will be bias.

huh? The Jewish Talmud contains the reaction of the religious leaders to Jesus' miracles?

I did not know that.

Can you point me to a quotation, or give me a link?

I read about it but I don't have the info memorised, if I recall correctly, the Talmud mentiones someone that COULD have been Jesus being accused of these things, but to be honest I am going on memory and I am sure there is more to it.

Maybe someone can give you more info than I can right now.

I do recall that the passages are desputed as referring to Jesus.

Twitch

The thread title compares apples to oranges IMO

Religion doesn't ask why things are or seek measurable answers about our physical world

Science doesn't answer questions that involve belief or anything subjective

But we have or need both in our world, for better or worse it seems.

Hawking would've been regarded as a madman in the 1st century, or a heretic

Jesus today would be a motivational speaker or committed for psychiatric evaluation, assuming his appointment with the Amazing Randy failed to secure his 1 million,....

BurnTheShips

PSAC is right. The Jews of the time, and in the early decades after Christianity got started, never went after the fact that Jesus did whatever Christians claim he did.

Think about that.

They never claimed it never happened!

That would have been a great argument for them to make!

They didn't say he didn't do it. What they appear to have done, however, is attribute it to sorcery rather than the power of God.

http://judaism.about.com/od/beliefs/a/jesus.htm

Yeshu - A Talmudic Tale

A story about a man named Yeshu can be found in the Talmud. There is debate whether this Yeshu in the Talmud is the same Jesus who later became a Christian divinity.

According to the Talmud, Yeshu was the son of a Jewish woman named Miriam who was betrothed to a carpenter. "Betrothed" means she was legally married to him, but she was not yet living with him or having sexual relations with him. The story says that Miriam was either raped by or voluntarily slept with Pandeira, a Greek or Roman soldier. Miriam than gave birth to Yeshu, who was considered a "mamzer" (bastard), a product of an adulterous relationship. The Talmud describes Yeshu as a heretic who dabbled in sorcery and lead the people astray. Later, the Sanhedrin (the Jewish "Supreme Court") ordered Yeshu stoned to death and his dead body was hung from a tree until nightfall after his death, in accordance with the ancient Jewish punishment for heretics.

BTS

tec

That's interesting, BTS, thank you.

Tammy

Stephen Hawking knows more about heaven than Jesus did.

Share this