by Mindchild 85 Replies latest jw friends
On the other hand, individuals who actively participate in the organization are by necessity linked with the overall consequences of their participation.
I must ask this question. Does their actual knowledge, or lack of knowledge, of the organizations bad qualities affect their culpability?
order in the court!!!!!
Tim I'll give you one warning that happens again and you'll be held in contempt of this court and fined what ever my car ins is for the next 6 months.
Honorable Judge Venice
"Injustice will continue until those who are not affected by it are as outraged as those who are."
Sorry Your Honor,
I didn't mean to distract from the proceeding which you are conducting so well.
TimB
The prosecution acknowledges Tim’s statements and accepts the argument that past positive effects the person or group has on others.
I further acknowledge for the moment the examples given of established organizations that have the aim of public service, at times failing in their objectives by in competency or scandalous behavior. Rebuttal will be made in the prosecutions opening statements.
I take objection though to the defense making the statement:
The witnesses provide hope for people who have given up on other religions and themselves. They give them hope for a new way of life, new respect, and new friends. Is this bad. Yes and No. No, because this hope enables many to raise themselves from the criminal lifestyle they felt mired in. It gives those suffering from depression the power to leave their own home to be with like minded people.Notably I ask for further evidence that can demonstrate the claims of this belief system curing depression. I make these comments in the view of the widely known facts of the epidemiological evidence of mental problems Jehovah’s Witnesses are known to suffer, including ten’s of thousands of cases of depression. I fail to see therefore how this could be considered one of the “positive” things about this belief system.
I will supply the references for my claims your honor if you make him show his.
Skipper
It would interest the court to see evidence of both claims from both arguments!
HJV
"Injustice will continue until those who are not affected by it are as outraged as those who are."
I strongly disagree with the "polite attitude" definition of the word respect. Any sane person being stopped by the cops will be extremeley polite, but that is not respect. It is fear.
I respect all people I meet on initial contact. Sometimes (rarely) it goes downhill for there....
I do not at all respect the belief systems or the organization of the JWs. If you believe something is wrong and destructive you do not respect it. I surely respect individuals who hold beliefs I consider false. The belief systems themselves, surely not.
Respect for individuals and respect for belief systems are very different things. I respect (even admire) many Christians. I do not respect Christianity at all; in fact I detest it. This is a big difference.
When it comes to JWs, I do not respect those who shun me. I do not respect the leadership. I certainly do not respect any part of the belief system. But I know JWs that I do respect.
- Jan
--
"Doctor how can you diagnose someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and then act like I had some choice about barging in here right now?" -- As Good As It Gets
Mindchild’s opening statement:
It is the demonstrated view of Mindchild that the cumulative effect of actions and beliefs of the Watchtower Society inspire disgust or revulsion in persons with ordinary sensibilities and that their belief system is reckless as heretofore evident in display of posts on this site and from personal experience with the Watchtower Society. Mindchild maintains that the Jehovah’s Witnesses do not deserve respect as an established, common religion, and that the actions of the Watchtower Society are criminal against all humanity. Mindchild further argues that respecting the decision of someone to become a Jehovah’s Witness, either by original indoctrination or a person returning to Jehovah’s Witnesses is not proper and is like wishing someone to experience gross exploitation for a commercial corporation that regard the ruination of lives as a natural consequence of doing business.
I intend to supply four themes of evidence that support these statements above.
If the court finds it pleasing, my evidence will consist of:
1. Biblical examples of disrespect encouraged for false and misleading belief systems.
2. The established track record of Jehovah’s Witnesses themselves in showing gross disrespect for all belief systems but their own.
3. Contemporary societal models of what deserves respect and what doesn’t
4. Psychological perspectives of the most effective way to help others leave the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Finally Mindchild reminds the court that regardless of our justification to speak against the cult of Jehovah’s Witnesses is this a case of cutting off our nose to spite our face? Will we do more damage than good by assertively and aggressively pointing out the crimes and injustices of the Society? …uh I just wanted to say that because it sounded cool.
Skipper
order order order!!!
Who called forth this witness??? We haven't even had opening arguments completed!
Very good points were brought out by Sir Jan and will be considered permissible.
___________________
Mindchild I find your 4 points pleasing please proceed.
one comment though why did you add that last paragraph to your comments. It seems to contridict your postition. It would have been a better Idea to sell that to the defendent for his concluding comments. Please proceed and stick to your stand no matter how 'kool' an oposing line of arguement may sound at the time.
HJV
"Injustice will continue until those who are not affected by it are as outraged as those who are."
To please the most impressive looking Judge in the court, Mindchild presents the following evidence to support his statements about the damaging effects of Jehovah’s Witnesses on the mental health of the population at large.
References:
The Mental Health of Jehovah's Witnesses, John Spencer
http://www.rickross.com/reference/Art57.html
Abstract:
The present study of 50 Jehovah's Witnesses admitted to the Mental Health Service facilities of Western Australia suggests that members of this section of the community are more likely to be admitted to a psychiatric hospital than the general population. Furthermore, followers of the sect are three times more likely to be diagnosed as suffering from schizophrenia and nearly four times more likely from paranoid schizophrenia than the rest of the population at risk.
Psychological Manipulation and Society Vol. 14, No. 1, 1997, Wifely Subjection: Mental Health Issues in Jehovah’s Witness Women, Kaynor J. Weishaupt, M.S., M.F.C.C.
http://www.csj.org/pub_csj/csj_vol14_no1_97/abs_wifely.htm
Abstract:
The Watchtower Society, commonly referred to as Jehovah’s Witnesses, exerts a great deal of control over the everyday life of its members. Women, in particular, suffer from psychological stresses in this high-control environment, as it is also a culture where patriarchal attitudes limit women’s personal power and predominate in their relationships with men. A group of women responded to a questionnaire about their experiences during membership in the Watchtower Society and after leaving. The results indicate that while in the Watchtower Society, women experience a higher degree of mental health problems than they do after they leave the group. They also report experiencing more egalitarian attitudes in their relationships with men after exiting the group.
Why Jehovah's Witnesses Have Mental Problems, Jerry Bergman, Ph.D
http://www.premier1.net/~raines/mental.html
Abstract:
A scientific literature review found that the rate of mental illness among Jehovah's Witnesses is considerably above average. The specific level found in the research varies partly because the extant research was on different populations and time periods. The major factors identified as either helpful or harmful to Witness mental health were discussed. Although persons with emotional problems tended to join the Witnesses, the Watchtower teachings and its subculture clearly adversely affected the mental health of those involved. The official Watchtower attitude on mental illness was also examined as were the common beliefs about the problem among Witnesses.
The Pessimistic Sect's Influence on the Mental Health of Its Members
Social Compass, 1977/1, 235-147, By Havor Montague
http://watchtower.observer.org/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20010114&Category=JWANDMEDICINE5&ArtNo=9999351&Ref=AR
Additional references to relevant scientific studies can be found at the following link:
http://watchtower.observer.org/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20010114&Category=JWANDMEDICINE5&ArtNo=9999351&Ref=AR
Skipper
Saint and JanH especially expressed my opinion on this topic. I agree with nearly everything they both said.
