Question for ALL ex JW's or those who don't believe everything - (the answers here may help you and your answers may help others)

by EndofMysteries 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Lozhasleft
    Lozhasleft

    I'm easy ... A...

    Loz x

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hello EOM,

    Always good to read your posts.

    I guess it will come as no surprise to you I am firmly in camp "A".

    With regard to JWs, their faith is in their "Jehovah" and the WT.

    As far as the bible is concerned, faith in Jesus is where it begins and ends.

    John 6:29 (New International Version)

    29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

    John 6:35 (New International Version)

    35 Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.

    John 10:42 (New International Version)

    42 And in that place many believed in Jesus.

    Blessings,

    Stephen

  • donny
    donny

    I cannot prove or disprove an "intelligent" designer. Even if there is such an entity, it does not then logically follow that it has anything to do with what is called the Bible. Such a being would have done a much better job than that.

  • Tuesday
    Tuesday
    C. Atheist - I can understand those loosing faith in bible, but everything in existance, I can't believe was random.

    Who said it was? The laws of nature are not random they're based on chemical reactions and chemical properties. If you combine vinegar and baking soda you know what the reaction will be, it's not random but those conditions can come into play without a human or anything manipulating them.

    I see far too much evidence of intelligent design

    Like?

    and how all supposedly randomness, with intelligent thinking ability, we as humans can't duplicate.

    Again what are you talking about random? However you need to do some research on Beta particals or Gamma particals, I'd probably also look into the Miller-Urey experiment from the University of Chicago in 1952.

    If life happened on its own, why can't we create it ourselves.

    Ugn, have you researched evolution at all? So let's review all the things we can do, we can cause plants and animals to evolve. We can cause inorganic compounds to turn into organic ones. We can cause the organic compounds to become RNA and we can cause RNA to self-replicate. So in essence if we can do all these basic parts of how life came about don't you think in time we'll be able to do more and create life. What will be your excuse when we do?

    My question, is your path from being a JW, to not believe in bible, then not even in God. What made your belief firm in this?

    Easy, there's no evidence that is external (of the bible), objective, and verifiable that God does exist. I don't believe in anything else that lacks these qualities why should I believe in God then?

  • EndofMysteries
    EndofMysteries

    Chalam - thank you, I make this reply incase you have read this yet - The new testament says that. Old Testament says Jehovah or in hebrew IEUE which then somehow becomes YHWH then JVHV then Jehovah. In that book, there is no other way. The voice crying out in the wilderness I believe is prepare the way for Jehovah. So then is Jesus actually Jehovah, and if he is the son, not the father, was Jehovah of the old testament Jesus, and the scriptures saying Israel is his inheritance, even at that point talking about him? But further questions are then raised.....why does he say no God higher, etc, if there was the father?

  • Cagefighter
    Cagefighter

    A

  • Terry
    Terry

    When it comes to "GOD".....

    simply "believing" there is one (or more) doesn't really get you anywhere, now does it?

    God can mean Zeus or Odin or The Great Spirit or a whole pantheon. No specificty to it or intelligibility.

    So, why believe in something which has no substantiality? It is conceptual emptiness. A file folder without any paper in it.

    The Bible? Whatever it is now it isn't what it was. Which is to say, oral traditions were eventually written down--but--how much (if at all) the written matches the oral is impossible to discover.

    What we do know is that each time a copyist or scribe or translator generated a new copy they deliberately (without malice, of course) tried to "clear up" anything they thought didn't make sense. They tried to "harmonize" and reinforce their own understanding of what "should" be there.

    The original hand-written manuscripts were either destroyed or wore out. Without them we are totally adrift on a sea of constant changes.

    Denominations are separate from each other (often argumentatively) because they use specific scriptures (proof texts) to find distinctions and difference with other believers. However, it is foolish to do so. We cannot know--do not know and are unable to ever know what SPECIFIC WORDS were originally used in the Bible. How can we then proof text without this proof??

    I make it my business to leave "belief" to simple things in life that don't involve the supernatural. I've given up my superstitions.

    I avoid like the plague people with a hunger for mystical "explanations" or who like to read into events a grand spiritual scenario.

    I see no reason to explain the "origins" of life. What difference does it make to me? None.

    I'm not smart enough to understand the arguments for and against evolution. Medieval scholars wasted their time arguing on how many angels could dance on the head of a pin. That's what evolutionary arguments amount to.

    I don't care. Period.

    I'm not a theist. I'm not a deist. I'm not an atheist. I JUST DON'T KNOW that any facts exist to support a MEANINGFUL phenomenon worth believing in and giving a name to.

    So, where does that leave me? I'm sort of like Socrates; I only know that I know nothing.

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hi EOM,

    Chalam - thank you, I make this reply incase you have read this yet - The new testament says that. Old Testament says Jehovah or in hebrew IEUE which then somehow becomes YHWH then JVHV then Jehovah. In that book, there is no other way. The voice crying out in the wilderness I believe is prepare the way for Jehovah. So then is Jesus actually Jehovah, and if he is the son, not the father, was Jehovah of the old testament Jesus, and the scriptures saying Israel is his inheritance, even at that point talking about him? But further questions are then raised.....why does he say no God higher, etc, if there was the father?

    I could try and answer you questions but I think I could best serve you by pointing you in the right direction.

    This verse says it all regarding the Old Testament i.e. covenant in the light of the New Testament.

    Hebrews 8:13 (New International Version)

    13 By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

    Or this one

    Luke 5:38 (New International Version)

    38 No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins.

    Or these

    Galatians 2:15-16 (New International Version)

    15 "We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' 16 know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

    You need to deconstruct ever thing the WT said, expecially about Jesus, the Holy Spirit and ultimately the Father and replace it with what the bible says.

    Here are a few pointers to help you.

    John 1:1; 8:58; cf. Ex. 3:14

    John 5:18; 10:30; Heb. 1:3 Isa. 43:11 Titus 2:13; Isa. 44:24 Col. 1:16; Isa. 6:1–5 John 12:41

    Col. 1:16; cf. John 1:3;Heb. 1:2, 10 Heb. 1:6

    Col. 2:9; cf. Phil. 2:6–7 Matt. 1:23; cf. Isa. 7:14; John 1:1, 14, 18; 10:30; 14:9–10

    Isa. 44:6; 45:18; 46:9; John 5:44; 1 Cor. 8:4;James 2:19)

    1 Pet. 1:2 John 20:28; Heb. 1:8 Acts 5:3–4

    Ps. 139:7; Jer. 23:23–24; Matt. 28:20

    Ps. 147:5; John 16:30; 1 Cor. 2:10–11

    Jer. 32:17; John 2:1–11; Rom. 15:19

    Ps. 90:2; Heb. 9:14; Rev. 22:13

    Gen. 1:1; Ps. 102:25 John 1:3; Col. 1:16; Heb. 1:2 Gen. 1:2; Job 33:4; Ps. 104:30

    Matt. 28:19; cf. 2 Cor. 13:14

    Blessings,

    Stephen

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    I could try and answer you questions but I think I could best serve you by pointing you in the right direction.

    I agree. Try a MaCallan 25, a Padron 1992 and follow it up with some naked time with a woman you love. Or at lease love for that night. That right there's heaven, my man.

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    @Terry

    I 100% agree with what you said. Your post wasa beautiful!

    That is the essence of life, the unknown. When you accept the unknown... peace and freedom of mind soon follows.

    I look at life as a massive puzzle with an infinite amount of puzzle peices. Some get a part of the puzzle done and do get a clear picture formed, so they stop and declare the puzzle complete. But it is not complete, once other peices are in place their picture might change meaning drastically. When that happens they need to swallow their pride and continue the puzzle. Sadly most just stick to their interpretation of the puzzle as others continue to work on it.

    The puzzle peices are knowledge, and knowledge is ever lasting.

    -Sab

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