A better way of doing it, with regards to the 'God' question. If you're a theist or deist, please answer this question.

by Psychotic Parrot 86 Replies latest jw friends

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  Psychotic Parrot

  White Dove,

  I'm not very familiar with Paganism, though i was under the impression that Wicca wasn't a subset of Paganism, as i was corrected by a Wiccan once in the past for labelling it as such. The whole nature = God thing is pantheism & is thus not something i would try to argue against, but i've already made my feelings clear on how i feel about the usage of the word God in such a context, but then i guess i was born a little late to make that complaint to Pagans, they've been around a lot longer than i have. I'm not sure how much evidence means in Paganism or Wicca, but certainly to claim that God explains nature or nature explains God is verging on the 'God of the gaps' area of things, but like i said, i'm not sure if that's the way that Pagans or Wiccans look at things.

  VoidEater,

  I would offer that you are intently looking for something that does not exist

  Exactly my feelings on the nature of this type of God, it probably does not exist, but it is not i who is looking for it, there just happen to be millions, maybe billions of other people who are insisting to me & other atheists that it (or as they often put it "He") exists.

  but that other models of Divinity are around

  Such as? Or are you referring to pantheism & your beliefs, etc?
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  VoidEater

  who are insisting to me

  So this thread is along the lines of "put up or shut up"...I get it...there are great squidges of this kind of thread in existence here...perhaps I'm just too old, it's pretty much a given that there are no evidential arguments.

  Such as?

  I don't know that they are "beliefs", but rather "placeholders", in my case. Google "non-theistic spirituality", or look into Zen, or maybe Native American religions (which would be rather pantheistic for you for the most part, I would hazard). Yes, there'sll be a bunch of New Age stuff to wade through.

  But we here even on this board are not nearly so monolithic as one might expect - we don't digress because of a lack, we digress because of the individual nature of humanity. You might be more satisfied if you looked outside the Judeo-Christian motif, once you've exhausted this current line.

  As far as I can see, Burns gave you the best answer. Everything else reduces to that, n'est pas?

  For me, spirituality is the antithesis of analytical thought - not that it's contradictory, but that it's just a different context. It doesn't take place in the world of thought, it is accessed through a felt sense (experientially). It's just silly to try to prove it in the external world, since it doesn't exist there (if it exists at all).

  I know that's not what your asking for, but I'm certainly not going to assert something I don't believe in!

  Be happy -VE
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  agonus

  PP,

  OK let me try to clarify:

  OK, a fractal is quite literally made up of smaller versions of itself. That's what I mean by macrocosm within the microcosm. In some metaphysical sense, I believe "God" (as I understand God) is a similar construct. We are little tiny sub-gods or "cells", if you will, comprising the "body" of the Almighty God. Or neurons in his brain. Whatever metaphor you want to use. Physicist Steven Weinberg asked the question, "Is the universe a computer"? I believe that it is. A computer that has some kind of sublime yet incomprehensible sentience. That sentience/computer is what I would call "God". Not that God is constrained to the physical universe of course, but IT is constrained to God.
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  metatron

  These discussions about God's existence pop up constantly and they confuse and astound me because they all seem to rehash the same questions over and over WITHOUT DISCUSSING SEVERAL CRITICAL POINTS.

  1) Why doesn't God talk to everybody - or for that matter, ANYBODY? If you ruled the Cosmos, why, why, why would you expect people to carefully obey obscure, figurative, ambiguous messages written in dead languages? Is this how you deal with your neighbors? Your workmates? If a personal Creator exists, why doesn't he communicate directly to people?

  2) How does nature manifest a personal creator when nature is loaded with blood, parasites, predators, pain, death, illness and suffering THAT APPEAR TO BE THE PRODUCTS OF DESIGN? Isn't the mosquito a marvel? And the guinea worm? And alligators?

  3) On the other hand, forget about how creation got here. WHO or WHAT MAINTAINS IT? How does the universe continue to maintain any consistency or laws of physics? Why doesn't it all collapse into chaos?

  I think that Pantheism and an impersonal sort of GodHead make the most sense.

  metatron
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  not a captive

  VoidEater Asked, what activities have you engaged in to move your inquiry forward?

  Did anyone here see the film Groundhog Day?

  Do you recall that the obnoxious character played by Bill Murray? Murray played a real jerk. He is an arrogant, bored TV weatherman who finds himself in a time-warp while on assignment. It seems his extraordinary selfishness has earned him the opportunity to relive his self-centered over and over again.

  That day, Groundhog Day, he was rude and sarcastic to everyone without exception--even though he wants the admiration of his beautiful co worker. He realizes he is trapped in that day and persists in his vile behavioruntil he realizes that he is not benefited. So he undertakes a transformation of his personality and this seems to remake the marred parts of that day.

  But there is one thing he cannot make happen as he wants: He cannot get his co-worker into bed with him. He perfects his technique, he learns her history,her favorite places and music, flatters and charms her with French poetry and her favorite drink--But ever so close as he might get to her, there was nothing he can do but she sees through his calculated management of her. Slap, slap, and slap.

  At last he despairs. He has repeated his efforts with infinite variations and finally accept that he will never win her. So he gives up.At the end of one day he simply loves her and treats her no better than he treats everyone else that day--very kindly. He expects nothing at all.

  And he has finally won her. That day has an end.

  This may seem frivolous to tell, but it is the only way I can easily say how God dealt with me and how he seems to deal with others.
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  BurnTheShips

  I'll get back to you if & when that happens, i'm only 22.I'll get back to you if & when that happens, i'm only 22.

  I understand now. You have a lot of life to live, PP. I hope it is good for you.

  BTS
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  notverylikely

  I am not asking for favours from God, i am simply asking why He plays favourites & why some who don't believe in Him are given these magic revelations & others are not. All i want is some good evidence, then we can talk about favours.

  Dude, you're going down a rathole. I've had this conversation with many on this board (tec, PSac (shout out to mah brotha!), sylvia, shelby, etc.) and it just seems to come down to this:

  Some CHOOSE to believe, others feel they have had some sort of personal revelation and that has made them believe, other think they have discovered mysteries and secrets in the bible, some think they converse with god on a regular basis. If people want to beleive, they will, and no amount of logic, science, or anything else will change their mind. It's their right to believe should they choose.

  Others, like us, see no reason to believe without concrete evidence and apply logic to it in the seemingly haphazard way god chooses to reveal himself to believers and unbelievers (assuming he existed). that is our right.

  As long as we can all get along, it's all good.
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  BurnTheShips

  As long as we can all get along, it's all good.

  Amen.

  "It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." T. Jefferson.

  BTS
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  tec

  As long as we can all get along, it's all good.

  Though I'm not sure if I know how I'm going to get along if you're not countering every thing I say :)

  Parrot - I would like to point out that most of us believers, at least on this board, don't think that we can convince you of God's existence. That is a personal journey that you must make - or even want to make. The most that we can do is share our experiences and insights, and hope that these help you in some way to find peace.

  Tammy
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  notverylikely

  Though I'm not sure if I know how I'm going to get along if you're not countering every thing I say :)

  Now I didn't go saying all of that .... ;)

  Amen.

  Are we kissing and making up now? If so, I'm OK with it.