by frigginconfused 103 Replies latest jw friends
I think it would be better to use a different word. Lets change "religion" to "spirituality".
We as humans dont do well alone. We need eachother for support and to bounce ideas off of. There is a real need for a group of people that are organized in searching for the truth just as the WTS founders did.
>"At stake is the freedom to pursue spiritual truth untrammeled by arbitrary restrictions and the right to enjoy a personal relationship with God and >his Son free from the subtle interposition of a priestly nature on the part of a human agency."
>Friggin, those words are the words of a man who had to be thrown out of "true religion" because religious organizations make laws that we are >bound to break.
>>nope. never thrown out of any religion.
frigginconfused, the poster was referring to Ray Franz. He not only proposed what you propose, he LIVED it. From the time he was DFd from the Borg he lifed the life of a free Christian, had fellowship with others both of like mind and unlike, and gave words of love, kindness, and hope to those who needed them.
What he did NOT do is make his form of worship into an organization, a religion. Why? Because he saw firsthand what organized religion does to real faith and love; it kills it. Organization is not only unnecessary, it is a detriment to pure worship and faith.
One thing the Rutherford JWs got right: Religion IS a snare and a racket.
If you really want to unify people of faith but without constraints, do nothing external; make it a personal journey. Pick up several different translations of the "Tao Te Ching" and read them. Read several different versions of the New Testament. Read "Crisis of Conscience" and "In Search of Christian Freedom." Then read "The Tao of Pooh." And just keep reading and sharing with people here on JWN and on other boards and in real life.
When two or three are gathered together, Christ promised to be with them. You think he's here on JWN? You bet he is. He's also in your backyard garden and at your local library. Where is the true religion? It's wherever YOU are, bro. It isn't something you can create or organize, for by organizing it, you have destroyed it. Just live it and let it BE.
"True Religion" - now there is an oxymoron if I've ever seen one.
Here is the true religion, are you ready for it?
Love thy neighbor.
Anything more is just a social club waiting to be abused by ambitious humans.
We're not meant to live forever. Everything dies, us included. We're not special just because we think we are, and we're scared of dying. Someday our sun and earth is going to die, too, and I doubt any of us will want to be here when that happens.
People start these little revolutionary quests for truth with the best intentions, but they always fall apart and end up becoming just like their predecessors. Just ways to control other humans. Learning from history helps us to realize that we should avoid setting up these systems at all costs.
There is no great truth. Live a good life, be happy, help your friends and neighbors, love your family.
There is no great truth. Live a good life, be happy, help your friends and neighbors, love your family.
Not to trivialize this topic with a cartoon reference but I'm reminded of one of the main themes of Kung Fu Panda: THERE IS NO SECRET INGREDIENT
The FDS used scriptures to justify the robotics they wired into us: Heb. 10:24,25 for the mandatory gatherings they organized and they used 1 Cor. 14:33,40 to structure the meetings.These things compelled us to wear our hair a certain way, dress a certain way. Those of us that were genuine converts originally came to meetings for the love of God but found ourselves laced up in an organizational straight jacket as though to insure the spiritual safety of ourselves and others.
Now,
friggin, have you ever been in love?
If so, then you would know that you don't have to be organized into meeting and talking with the one you love. You don't want to damage the beauty of the love that you share. So you talk. And you do things to make it grow and so on.
You can't stop Christians from talking to each other and exchanging phone numbers and from encouraging one another. And even from meeting together. You can't stop them. The book of Acts is all about spontaneous actions. The spirit of God gives evidence of itself in the outcome of the actions.
If you are in love with God then don't manage it to death like everyone wants to do. Trust the spirit.
This is IMO----That's my take on matters so far. I've met so many Christians that way and Have been so encouraged by those conversations and offers to meet with them. And I'm not talking about "joining churches"
Edited: When I saw the above posts I see I am redundant here--But take the point: there are ways we all agree and still remain individual..Christian freedom!
RIGHT ON BROTHERS!
But I beleive
Exactly...and that's the way it should stay.
You discuss how to run your Judicial Committees:
13. To keep bias from tainting judicial commitees, disfellowshiping, or any serious descisions, local elders knowing any party involved must be excluded.
... and then a few minutes later you ask:
Why is it so hard for people to think there can be a true religion. One that is based on love ane strengthening the bond with God and our fellow man. Non judgemental and free?
You don't want to strengthen your bonds with everyone .... you just want to strengthen your bonds with people who are willing to agree with you and your new set of doctrines.
Your first mistake is not accepting that the religious book you choose to base this new cult/sect/religion/spirituality on is not universally accepted. How is your new 'true religion' going to deal with a billion towel heads who don't like your book? Love bomb the Teliban into joining a Christian church? Invite them to a JC? Remove their priviledges? Bomb them into submission? What ....?
Cheers
Chris
dear frigginconfused...
The message of Jesus is not only one of peace with our fellows. His message was one of peace with God. Because of God's LOVE for us Jesus came to us from the Father to save us. He talked about saving us from the consequences of sin and saving us from hell. He also said that if you don't believe that message you are condemned already...
Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?”
Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.” (john 18:37)
I wonder if some don't want a new religion so much as they want a new god...
Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures. (james 1:13-18)
And we have known and believed the LOVE that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him. (1 john 4:16)
His yoke is light, if you don't take on His yoke, is it because you don't want to sacrifice freedom to gain the ultimate freedom? If Jesus sets you free you are free indeed!...
They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”
Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever.Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. (john 8:33-37)
love michelle
p.s. dear SacrificialLoon you said: "Problem is when dealing in matters of faith there is no way to test and falsify claims based on faith, so you can't prove another group is wrong, and that's when you have problems."...God tells us to ask for a sign (see isaiah 7:11)...if you don't believe the sign who's fault is that?
Aside for Michelle: God told AHAZ to ask for a sign at Isaiah 7:11; it was a specific instance for a specific person. The Bible is pretty clear in general that believers should not put God to the test. I don't want to go any further down this off-topic road in this thread but if you want to start a thread about your "p.s." section I think it is a worthy topic and I bet a lot would participate in it.
