@scholar
1873rd act of defiance of the Watchtower Society.
Help with another 607 vs 587 question............
by thraxer68 106 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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PSacramento
When the WT scholars have enough evidence and proof to CHANGE the encyclopedias of the world and to change the facts the we have now, then I will accept the insignificant date of 607BC, but even THEN it won't mean crack because it still has ZERO to do with 1914 since the calcs were made up anyways and even LESS to do with the second coming of Jesus since, according to Jesus, only God knows and since, according to ACTS Chapter 1:
6 So when they met together, they asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”
7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”
And since Jesus warned that many will say he has coem back but if we don't see him to know them to be false prophets, it seems very clear who NOT to believe.
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isaacaustin
'Scholar' the only contradictions accepting the 586/7 date causes are ones with WT doctrine. So when verifiable fact and Wt doctrine conflict, who shall we believe?
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garyneal
Scholar
Post 1873
I would be real interested if you could show me where Jeremiah prophecied the desolation of Jerusalem for the 70 year time period. Your passage of scripture (Jeremiah 20:10) did not give any indication of anything useful. But perhaps garyneal is not as well versed as a celebrated WT scholar such as yourself.
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Hoping4Change
I wont cross post, but would love it if my question from here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/195422/3/Where-did-607-come-from could be addressed by those so inclined, esp. those who would argue 607 to be the correct date.
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garyneal
those who would argue 607 to be the correct date.
Cue scholar.
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scholar
garyneal
Post 1356
The answer to your question is simply found in Jeremiah 25:9-11 where it refers quite plainly to the fact that the seventy years was a period of desolation, exile and servitude to Babylon. This view of matters conforms to what Ezra, Daniel and Zechariah had to say about the matter and is also proven by the many references to the seventy years made by Josephus.
scholar JW
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AnnOMaly
Neil, don't deflect. You know I was referring to your silliness, and your silliness alone in making assertions you can't substantiate.
You also know too well (as many here have trodden this ground with you numerous times before) that Jer. 25:9-11 does not support your claim that "[Jeremiah] simply prophesied that Judah would lie desolate for seventy years" (post #1873) but that he attached the 70 year period to the nations' (plural) servitude to Babylon. As usual, your 'mindlock' is making you distort the text.
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isaacaustin
Pseudoscholar:
garyneal
Post 1356
The answer to your question is simply found in Jeremiah 25:9-11 where it refers quite plainly to the fact that the seventy years was a period of desolation, exile and servitude to Babylon. This view of matters conforms to what Ezra, Daniel and Zechariah had to say about the matter and is also proven by the many references to the seventy years made by Josephus.
scholar JW
My reply: It says no such thing. It quite plainly states that the nations would serve babylon 70 years.
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garyneal
scholar
Post 1875
I've looked up the passage of scripture you cited and for the benefit of others, garyneal has made the text available for all here to read.
Jeremiah 25:9-11
9 I will summon all the peoples of the north and my servant Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon," declares the LORD, "and I will bring them against this land and its inhabitants and against all the surrounding nations. I will completely destroy them and make them an object of horror and scorn, and an everlasting ruin. 10 I will banish from them the sounds of joy and gladness, the voices of bride and bridegroom, the sound of millstones and the light of the lamp. 11 This whole country will become a desolate wasteland, and these nations will serve the king of Babylon seventy years.
There are some technical details that garyneal would like scholar to help him with as garyneal is a bit of a confused sort when the Bible is found to be in disagreement with secular sources.
Verse 11 is a bit confusing as I wonder which country is becoming a desolate wasteland and which nations will serve the king of Babylon? The text seems to refer to a single country becoming desolate and multiple nations going into servitude. Do all of these nations also become desolate? Are these nations part of the single country that becomes desolate? Is the single country one of many amongst the nations that go into servitude?
Garyneal is curious since he has seen this verse interpreted in different ways and there is no one alive today who has spoken with Jeremiah to get the proper interpretation of this passage.
But there are other verses that come after this that garyneal would also like some help with.
Jeremiah 25:12-14
12 "But when the seventy years are fulfilled, I will punish the king of Babylon and his nation, the land of the Babylonians, for their guilt," declares the LORD, "and will make it desolate forever. 13 I will bring upon that land all the things I have spoken against it, all that are written in this book and prophesied by Jeremiah against all the nations. 14 They themselves will be enslaved by many nations and great kings; I will repay them according to their deeds and the work of their hands."
Historically, after Babylon's capture in 539 B.C.E., it went on to become "the capital city of the 9th Satrapy (Babylonia in the south and Athura in the north), as well as a centre of learning and scientific advancement," and " the land and city of Babylon remained solidly under Persian rule for two centuries."* The country did not become desolate until 141 B.C.E. but still remained a province of the Persian empire until 650 C.E..
Garyneal is no expert in Babylonian history but it would seem that the historical account shows that Babylon was indeed enslaved by many nations starting in 539 B.C.E. but the desolation of it was off.
If the 70 years of Jerusalem's desolation began in 607 B.C.E., why was the capture of Babylon recorded in 539 B.C.E.? If the 70 years ended in 539 B.C.E. as the Bible suggest in verse 12, what happened in 609 B.C.E.?