My daughter asked me this today.
by thenoblelodge 57 Replies latest watchtower bible
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techdotcom
It's funny how I see so many witnesses turned atheists/agnostics who praise Raymond Franz who left the WT but stuck with the Bible while simultaneously bashing people on this board who are doing the same thing.
While some people do get frustrated and "bash", there is no reason for you to feel defensive and to lash back out yourself. I would advise, as I did in an earlier post, to use the same process that a person uses to expose the fallacy and dishonesty in witness belief to other aspects of thier life as well, including their faith in god.
Faith is belief without objective proof. Not an evil thing or even bad. However, faith can become the rationalized basis for many things that are very bad indeed. I believe all of us need a certian amount of faith to be mentally healthy and function, however I also think that faith must be balanced by skeptical/critical thought lest it become the monster we see all thru human history and in the example of religions like the JW's.
Honest faith makes no claims to being the "truth" and therefore needs no defense.
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cab1000
The discussion of why bad things happen to good people is always interesting to me. I wanted to know how other people think about this subject. I read the book "The Shack" by William P. Young. The book does a good job of describing what it must feel like to believe in God, and how it all works. It is fiction, but still was pretty satisfying.
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PSacramento
The Shack was a very good book that helped to me understand things that had been "blocking" me for a very long time.
Here is the thing, the world is the way it is because it can be no other way ( in reagrds to naturla events that CAN be disasters) and the world is also a very crappy world at times because of what WE ( humans) have made it, even though we (humans) can fix it.
Now, I do know that some people still think that God SHOULD do something about it, but when I ask them WHICH God, they get a bewildered look, so I explain:
Which God do you wan tto fix this world?
The God of the JW's?
The God of the RCC?, of the Lutherans? of the Muslims? of the Hebrews? of the Mormons?
Which one do you want to fix things and which CONDITIONS do you want to live under for the rest of eternity?
Never get an answer to that one...
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superpunk
Here is the thing, the world is the way it is because it can be no other way
Exactly. The world looks exactly like it would whether God exists or not, which is why many wonder why anyone is determined to posit the existence of a being who appears to not affect us at all.
Now, I do know that some people still think that God SHOULD do something about it, but when I ask them WHICH God, they get a bewildered look, so I explain:
Which God do you wan tto fix this world?
Your question implies that there is ACTUALLY more than one option, and I had no idea you were polytheistic. ;-) I think most thinking people would say that they would prefer that if God exists, then they would prefer that THE God step in and do something, whoever he happens to be isn't important.
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PSacramento
Exactly. The world looks exactly like it would whether God exists or not, which is why many wonder why anyone is determined to posit the existence of a being who appears to not affect us at all.
Not exactly my point but the jest of it is there, I guess :)
Your question implies that there is ACTUALLY more than one option, and I had no idea you were polytheistic. ;-) I think most thinking people would say that they would prefer that if God exists, then they would prefer that THE God step in and do something, whoever he happens to be isn't important.
Think about what you just wrote and then think about what the JW's believe will happen when thier 'version" of God DOES "fix things".
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superpunk
Think about what you just wrote and then think about what the JW's believe will happen when thier 'version" of God DOES "fix things".
Their version of God is obviously not THE God, because we can evaluate the flaws in his alleged "plan". So choosing him to fix things would be roughly the same as choosing Mickey Mouse.
This is not a real choice, and therefore becomes a non sequitur, unless you are willing to suggest that there are ACTUALLY multiple Gods to choose from, in which case a meaningful choice can be made.
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Chalam
Interesting thread thenoblelodge :)
Welcome BTW!
The world is quick to point its fingers at God, who they ignore or don't believe exists.
God's fingers will point back at them, what are they doing with their world, its problems? Starvation? Injustice? Evil?
Good and bad things happen to both those who believe and those who don't. The only guarantee for those who believe is they can have peace in the storms of this life and everlasting peace in the next. Sounds like a no brainer to me :)
Blessings,
Stephen
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sir82
CAN God protect us? Yes. Does he always? No.
The issue isn't "protection", it is suffering.
Why does God allow a baby in Africa to be born with AIDS, suffer pain every moment it lives, and die covered in flies and mud after a few years of wretched existence? And why does he allow that (or similar) scenarios to repeat literally billions of times for uncounted milennia?
Actually, more to the point, why allow a world where the poor decisions of "person X" cause suffering, as outlined above, to hundreds or thousands or millions or billions of people?
If he were really a God of justice, then the "poor use" of "free will" (a topic for another day) on one person's part would cause bad consequences for that person only.
Why does the African AIDS baby suffer? How is justice served by allowing that human, who has never had the ability to even comprehend the topic of "free will", much less exercise it, to live literally every moment in excruciating pain before dying?
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PSacramento
This is not a real choice, and therefore becomes a non sequitur, unless you are willing to suggest that there are ACTUALLY multiple Gods to choose from, in which case a meaningful choice can be made.
I think you may be missing the point, most people that want God to step in and fix things have their OWN idea of who and what God is, OR they don't believe in God and are trying to make a point, others are asking a genuine question and looking for a genuine answer because they truly want to know why.
Which one are you?