I'd like to hear Perry's explanation of the great flood of Noah, what was its purpose and reason by the God of the Israelites.
This coincides with the proclamation that god is all loving and just toward mankind.
For Terry - So That it Will "Make Sense"
by Perry 235 Replies latest watchtower bible
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bohm
Well, lets go throught it:
"If all people are sinners, and all deserve death " How can you show me a small child is a sinner WITHOUT using the bible?
" purpose of a righteous Creator?" YOU judge God to be rightous. So now its OKAY for you to judge God
"that you think God causes death." YOU judge God to be perfectly honest with you when he gave you that crappy explanation in the bible. again its OKAY for you judge God.
"how can God be responsible for making them more dead?" well he bloody well can if he is the one who kill them! You live in zombieland or something where people are allready dead?
"The WT taught us an identical worldview about death as does the atheist learns in pop culture." No matter how many times you repeat this, it wont make it true.
" I understand the handicap". Bravo. you are so smart.
"But, if you don't accept the FACT that your soul can and will separate from your body at the moment your body stops functioning, of course none of this will make sense. " Okay, so the soul is an established fact. Not only cant you tell jehovahs witnesses theology and atheism apart, you dont know what fact is. And im the hadicapped?
I know a lot of folks want to scream their bloody heads off at God for a variety of reasons. I did it myself for a time. The fact is that we are all dying right now. Sin causes death, not God. God dont exist. Why should i scream at him? Do you often scream at things that only exist in your head?
Perry, this all boil down to this: Its okay for you to judge God, because you are right. Its okay for others to judge god, as long as they agree with you.
But its NOT okay for ME to judge God, because i dont agree with you. Then i dont understand that god is "infinite".
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bohm
"Hello im Christian. Your child deserve to die. infact, its allready dead, it just havent figured it out yet. Your handicapped. OMG ZOMBIE JESUS WILL KILL THE ZOMBIES!!!!111"
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Perry
Well, lets go throught it:
I'd be happy to.
"If all people are sinners, and all deserve death " How can you show me a small child is a sinner WITHOUT using the bible?
If you are going to critique the internal logic of the bible, then you MUST accept the biblical elements. Otherwise you are comparing apples and oranges. Surely you can understand that?
" purpose of a righteous Creator?" YOU judge God to be rightous.
Bohn, this isn't a judgment. This is the commonly accepted definition of God - omnibeneveloent
So now its OKAY for you to judge God
"that you think God causes death." YOU judge God to be perfectly honest with you when he gave you that crappy explanation in the bible. again its OKAY for you judge God.
Bohn, I have no quarrel with someone who doesn't like the biblical expalnation about how their own sin is responsible for their own death and judgment. This issue here is whether or not it is logical. Since we are all guilty of the exact same moral crimes that we have at one time or another blamed others for, we are on the hook morally to an all powerful God.
"how can God be responsible for making them more dead?" well he bloody well can if he is the one who kill them! You live in zombieland or something where people are allready dead?
Again, your brain is short circuiting on the issue of death. All people exist in various stages of decay.... apart from God. That is a fact you simply cannot dispute. Think about that for a while .
"The WT taught us an identical worldview about death as does the atheist learns in pop culture." No matter how many times you repeat this, it wont make it true.
" I understand the handicap". Bravo. you are so smart.
It is a fact, that is the only point I'm making.
"But, if you don't accept the FACT that your soul can and will separate from your body at the moment your body stops functioning, of course none of this will make sense. " Okay, so the soul is an established fact. Not only cant you tell jehovahs witnesses theology and atheism apart, you dont know what fact is. And im the hadicapped?
Fact: Atheists believe that we do not have a soul. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that we do not have a soul. The beliefs are identical. This radically changes the commonly accepted view of death.
Perry, this all boil down to this: Its okay for you to judge God, because you are right. Its okay for others to judge god, as long as they agree with you.
Bohn, what is boilds down to is that you want to judge God from a standpoint of a godless worldview, many of the elements of which are identical to a JW worldview, like the definition of death for one.
But its NOT okay for ME to judge God, because i dont agree with you. Then i dont understand that god is "infinite".
You can do whatever you wish. I'm just pointing out some the faulty premises that prohibit accuracy.
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Perry
"Hello im Christian. Your child deserve to die. infact, its allready dead, it just havent figured it out yet.
And yet, the child will in fact die. No matter how much you choose to ignore it, its true.
We do not have life within ourselves and are decaying and are in various stages of dying.
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bohm
Perry: As usual, you rat out. Let me spell it out for you. A couple of pages back you wrote this:
Without being God yourself, how can you judge the rightness or love of God and the action he took without being infinite yourself? He is unique. Yet, the parts that are known to us make a certain amount of sense, even in our own movies.
So there you go: You have somehow arrived at the conclusion that God is a good guy. You explain it like this: Bohn, this isn't a judgment. This is the commonly accepted definition of God - omnibeneveloent . I dont have to point you to you that just telling me your definition of God is that he is a good guy wont really demonstrate anything, right? For example, Shiva the destroyer is a God to, but he is not a very plesant character. So if you for a moment pretend your better than an argument-per-definition, you must agree with me you have somehow read about God etc. and arrived at the conclusion he is a good person. You have made a judgement regarding Gods character.
All i am telling you is that if its okay for YOU to make such a judgement based on certain scripture, you cant go around knock us for judging God based on other scripture. You cant have it both ways. Either you have to be God yourself to judge God - in which case neither of us can do it - or we are both entitled to being able to judge God, just like you have done.
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bohm
For the record: Do you believe there is an absolute, fundamental difference between knowingly drowning a child, and the same child dying of old age later on?
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thetrueone
Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian
1 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
2 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
3 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
4 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!
5 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
6 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.
7 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
8 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
9 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
10 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian. -
Perry
Perry: As usual, you rat out. Let me spell it out for you. A couple of pages back you wrote this: Without being God yourself, how can you judge the rightness or love of God and the action he took without being infinite yourself? He is unique. Yet, the parts that are known to us make a certain amount of sense, even in our own movies. So there you go: You have somehow arrived at the conclusion that God is a good guy.
Before a person can even formulate a question about God they must assume his goodness since his omnibenevelance is fundamental to the definition of God. If you don't do this, then the subject you are addressing isn't God. Surely you can understand this simple logic.
You explain it like this: Bohn, this isn't a judgment. This is the commonly accepted definition of God - omnibeneveloent . I dont have to point you to you that just telling me your definition of God is that he is a good guy wont really demonstrate anything, right?
This isn't my definition, this is the common definition of God.
For example, Shiva the destroyer is a God to, but he is not a very plesant character. So if you for a moment pretend your better than an argument-per-definition, you must agree with me you have somehow read about God etc. and arrived at the conclusion he is a good person. You have made a judgement regarding Gods character.
I can logically make a judgment of Shiva the god. But, as soon as I make the statement "God is not good", I have an impossibility, a non-sequitur. It is the same as trying to make a statement like "good is not good". It is an impossibility. I'm not saying you have to like it. I'm just holding your feet to the fires of logic. The ONLY way for your worldview to make some sense is to make the statement "there is no God". And since there is no possible way for you to know this, your worldview is just a small circle of denial and reasoning.
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thetrueone
Well Perry " So That it Will "Make Sense "
Give all here an explanation of the great flood of Noah, what was its purpose and reason by the God of the Israelites.