For Terry - So That it Will "Make Sense" (page 2)

moshe

Yes, God is great. He designed/created this perfect asteroid, planned out it's perfect orbit and knew exactly when and where it was going to hit the Earth 65 million years ago. Too bad for big bad T-Rex (formely the top dog on the planet), as he got too big for his britches and God decided to start over again by destroying his perfect creation (again). Another asteroid just like this is headed our way (again) and God will show us that His perfect human creation are just like puny ants to be incinerated off the face of the earth (again)- maybe that cute Geico lizard will take our place next time.

Perry

But you are ignoring the question Moshe. If God made all this, isn't it within his right to have a law like: the wages of sin is death?

thetrueone

If God made all this, isn't it within his right to have a law like: the wages of sin is death?

If god only exists in ideology, good could be evil and evil could be good .

Perry

Moshe,

I didn't say God wasn't a designer, I just said HE doesn't talk to us or hear our prayers to win the lottery or find a job or find a spouse, or have a kid or find the true religion, etc- oh, wait a minute, people do say God told them the lucky numbers to play.

But God regularly does all of those things for believers (grace), even for unbelievers he's molding (common grace), and much more. He has done each of those for me. Just because you believe that you personally haven't experienced God, that doesn't mean that millions of other people's testimony is false.

It should make a person a little angry and even jealous to see so many people enjoying the peace and blesssings of God, and yet not experiencing it themselves. Anger can be a powerful motivator to get to the bottom of a situation. I know that it was for me.

Mad Sweeney

Moshe said there isn't a "personal God," he didn't say there isn't a "God." There is a difference that fundamentalists seem unable to accept.

God isn't a sky-dude with a name and personality just like you and me. It isn't a "him." Humans who have written about it have tried to humanize it and in so doing have bastardized it. The God most people talk about does not exist because it bears such small resemblance to what God truly is.

Perry

C'mon Terry. It's a fair question for a "post enlightened" mind like yours:

Would you exchange your life for your daughter's so that she could live? You don't have to have an existential meltdown to display nobility. Try love on .....it feels good.

Mad Sweeney,

You display your certitude by virture of your lack of evidence; born again Christians display their testimony by virture of their direct experience in working with God.

You can know, what you don't know.

Perry

thetrueone

If god only exists in ideology, good could be evil and evil could be good .

Yes,

That is the inevitable result of denying God.

moshe

But God regularly does all of those things for believers (grace)

I read that the unemployment rate for devout church goers is, GASP, the same as the unchurched, which is anecdotal evidence that God doesn't give a hoot about whether you have a job or not. There is no repeatable prayer formula to make sure the the prayer you prayed for healing works for the person sitting in the pew in front of you. What gives with that? I am not the least bit jealous of of anyone who claims to have undeserved grace and that special saved feeling inside. It's all just brain endorphins making you feel good when you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar--- They say Jesus has already forgiven your transgression, because he paid the price for you sin. Jews don't believe that man was born with that sort of sin, so man has no need for a personal redeemer. The Torah's garden of Eden story, is their story, so a person should give some weight to their interpretation.

THE GLADIATOR

Some good points have been made on this thread by Terry and Moshe.

Perry refers to, 'the greatest expression of love in the universe, substitutionary atonement.' But God did not step in and provide a substitute for Adam & Eve. He let them die! Adam & Eve paid the price for their mistake with their own perfect lives.

If God had provided a substitutionary atonement when it was needed, Adam & Eve could have continued living and produced a perfect human race. That was after all God's plan, according to this quaint bible story.

Jesus sacrifice was too late to be a substitutionary atonement. Adam & Eve were dead and remain so. Despite the alleged substitutionary atonement of Jesus 4000 years later, people are still suffering and dying today. Even God's spiteful and unnecessary curse of birth pain for women remains. Modern science has helped to offer some relief, not God.

The present version of the bible, Gods only known written communication with mankind, begins with this implausible scenario and culminates with the book of Revelation. You are OK Perry - God talks to you and has explained it all? Please forgive me for being sceptical.

designs

Until the Fundamentalist can get beyond the belief in a literal Hell nothing will make a dent in their mental universe.

For Terry - So That it Will "Make Sense"

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