@MadDawg:
You didn't answer my question. Interpretive theory is the method one uses to interpret the Scriptures. As for doing research, I have done much research on the Scriptures and have never come across a mention of a double fulfillment - except in WT literature, but they never give a basis for it.
But I did answer your question. It is because you do not wish to "seek out one of Jehovah's Witnesses to arrange for a home Bible study or do some research" that you here claim that I didn't answer your question. So although I did answer it, you didn't like my answer and so you say, "You didn't answer my question." Got it!
As to the matter of what you call "interpretive theory," what you describe as being "the method one uses to interpret the Scriptures," I cannot comment since you would be totally mistaken to believe that I use "interpretive theory" to interpret the Scriptures. Perhaps, in doing your own research independent of Jehovah's Witnesses, the reason you have never come across mention of a double fulfillment "except in WT literature" is because the true followers of Jesus Christ have been blessed by the Father, Jehovah God, with a knowledge of the Bible that others simply do not possess, for God has hidden the meaning of these things "from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to babes." (Matthew 11:25)
The basis upon which what things Jehovah's Witnesses teach is based is, of course, the Bible, but clearly the fact that the world may have a copy of the Bible isn't enough, for they read it without understanding, without spiritual comprehension, since the Bible is a book that was written by Jehovah's Witnesses for Jehovah's Witnesses. No, Jehovah's Witnesses do not use "interpretive theory," which sounds to me like it might be defined as "the science of guessing at stuff that you have no clue as to what it means," but what things we teach is also based on God's holy spirit, or as Jesus refers to it at John 16:13, "the spirit of the truth ... [that guides us] into all the truth."
There's something at Acts 8:27-35 that does parallel the experience of many former Jehovah's Witnesses today, many of whom still retain copies of their NWTs, some of them still having in their possession the WT Library on CD that has become for them an object of veneration, a "god," as it were, that they really think will help them to deal with those of us that continue to be Jehovah's Witnesses and give them a "leg-up" when twisting what things they read among the main articles that have been published over the years by the WTS in an attempt to use our uninspired writings as proof that we aren't God's servants, as is our claim, but servants of men, servants of a cult, servants of the WTS and of the governing body. I didn't lose my thought here, but I'm going to digress here a moment.
In this thread, @caliber posted something from the 1939 book, Salvation, about Beth-Sarim, which I recognized right away as being an attack against the WTS and its possible misuse of the many financial contributions that our benefactors, including Jehovah's Witnesses, make toward the worldwide preaching work back in 1929, based on the unfounded notion of some that certain Jehovah's Witnesses, especially members of the governing body like J.F. Rutherford in 1929, were using these financial contributions to buy lavish homes and to support a materialistic lifestyle while the "rank and file" -- this is how certain folks refer to those of us in the local congregations that do not work at the WTS -- are living their lives in virtual squalor! He didn't ask me a question though, and when I asked him if he had intended to ask me a question, he wrote in response:
You want a question (I thought you could reason on my statements without needing a question.. you are simply used to the Wt system of question ..answer... why can't you pick up my points without a question ?? you are not at a Watchtower study !!here !!
Now I've never been a clairvoyant and I have never claimed to be such either here or elsewhere, so I thought it was a stupid thing for @caliber to have said to me when he said that he thought I could "reason on [his] statements without needing a question," when the statements that he had quoted in his post were not his statements at all, but were statement lifted verbatim from the Salvation book. Even the OP (@flipper) joined @caliber's cynicism about the WTS with this statement:
Jehovah's Witnesses and the WT society lie about it because they want to dupe, deceive and take advantage of JW members to keep them hooked into the game by contributing $$$$ to the WT society. They coerce older members to donate estates, wills, inheritances, cars, jewlery and possessions so as to contribute to a multimillion $$$$ yearly WT society income.
I know that I am not running some confidence "game" on any unsuspecting person, so I can say in my own defense that if anyone among Jehovah's Witnesses -- and this would include the WTS and the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses -- that Jehovah is big enough to handle such matters if such should really be taking place in His organization, and that as far as the Head of the Christian congregation is concerned, all Jehovah's Witnesses are the "rank and file" members of the Lord Jesus Christ. I have said here that I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses that studies the Bible with other Jehovah's Witnesses, but I also study the Bible with dedicated persons that were baptized in symbol of their dedication to please their parents or grandparents, or to please one of the elders, who may have been engaged at the time of someone's baptism in a contest with an elder in some other congregation, hoping to best the "offering" of the other congregation over the number of baptismal candidates to be baptized at the next assembly or convention.
The Christian ministry is a very serious business, and servants of God should not be becoming lax in it, so that they end up taking their ministry lightly and putting people's standing before God in jeopardy, which is why Paul stated that "those who are taking the lead ... [are] those who will render an account" for what things they do. (Hebrews 13:17)
Now if folks are being baptized that really don't know what it is their dedication involves, it's a problem for them and it's a problem for the elders that are absorbed in the sacrifice, in making an offering of new Christian disciples, when one of the things a disciple should learn is that God prepared a body for Jesus because "sacrifice and offering [He] did not want." (Hebrews 10:5) In response to a statement from a scribe that "loving [Jehovah] with one's whole heart and with one's whole understanding and with one's whole strength and this loving one's neighbor as oneself is worth far more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices," Jesus told the man, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." (Mark 12:32-34)
As many here know quite well from their own experiences, Jehovah's Witnesses will root out those among us that "cause divisions and occasions for stumbling," who "by smooth talk and complimentary speech ... seduce the hearts of guileless ones," including congregation elders, for Jesus has given us clear instructions in this regard. (Romans 16:17, 18)
Now it was clear to me as I was reading both @caliber's and @flipper's posts that they hate Jehovah and Jesus, in whose house they were permitted to dwell because Jehovah's servants cleaned them up and issued to each of them white robes in acknowledgment of their dedication to God so that they, for a time, were able to enter the courtyards here in the earthly realm of God's spiritual temple along with other dedicated worshippers of Jehovah God. All Christians are expected to be "fine stewards" in proportion to the spiritual gift of God's undeserved kindness as expressed in various ways, which gift they received so that they might minister to the needs of others, especially to those in God's household, but Jehovah's Witnesses can be too trusting of fellow stewards and sometimes to their own injury. (1 Peter 4:10; Galatians 6:10)
At 2 Peter 2:1-3, the apostle Peter spoke of those that would "quietly bring in destructive sects," who will even disown the Lord Jesus Christ, and how many of the brothers would "follow their acts of loose conduct," so that "on account of these the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively." Peter even makes the point that some would exploit their brothers "with counterfeit words." I don't know and do not say that either @caliber's or @flipper's posts here fit the category of apostatizing fellow stewards entrusted by Jesus to spread the message of the kingdom to all who would hear it, but I do say that their posts here on this forum are disappointing since by their "counterfeit words," they are disowning their owner as they teach things they ought not, things that they were not commissioned to teach, which cause "the way of the truth [to] ... be spoken of abusively." (Titus 1:11)
To get back to my point, you say that "except in WT literature," Jehovah's Witnesses never give a basis for "double fulfillment" of a Bible prophecy, but you're mistaken, @MadDawg. You say that you've "done much research on the Scriptures," but you cannot be referring to any research you did using the many Bible study aids that are now available in the current WT Library. Above I mentioned before the digression that there's something at Acts 8:27-35 that parallels the experience of many former Jehovah's Witnesses today, and I'm sure you've read this account at least once or twice in the past, but this Jewish proselyte was a religious man, too, in that he was in the truth, and being that he had converted to Judaism, he was one of Jehovah's Witnesses (Isaiah 43:10), a member of the congregation of God as were the Jews, who had "gone to Jerusalem to worship."
Now this man -- an Ethiopian eunuch -- had been reading Isaiah 53:7, 8, but he was unable to understand what he had been reading, for when Philip the evangelizer asked the man, "Do you actually know what you are reading?" he responded, "Really, how could I ever do so, unless someone guided me?" He then went on to ask Philip, "About whom does the prophet say this? About himself or about some other man?" Beginning with Isaiah 53:7, 8, Philip began to declare to the man the good news about Jesus.
I say this to make the point that without a bona fide preacher to guide folks into an understanding of the Bible, "how, in turn, will they hear" as the apostle Paul put it at Romans 10:14, 15? This man needed a preacher to explain to him that Isaiah was referring prophetically to the Lord Jesus Christ. Indeed, how will there be preachers unless there be taught ones "sent forth," those that call on the one in whom they put faith that they might publish to others things about the one "of whom they have not heard"? Many of Jehovah's Witnesses do not know what things the Bible teaches because their research is typically confined to surface knowledge, so that they may have been in the truth for 20 years or longer, but never "come to an accurate knowledge of truth." (2 Timothy 3:7)
They memorize many Scriptures and thus are able to recall them by rote, and, like you, @MadDawg, they know many of the things that Jehovah's Witnesses believe, and can even take you to the specific book or magazine article where a particular point is made, but they do not really know the truth. A few here have specifically asked about the minor and major fulfillment of Matthew 24:34, but Jehovah's Witnesses have our own terminology, and "interpretive theory" isn't ours. In my reply to @Ultimate Reality just yesterday, I pointed out to him that 1 Corinthians 10:6-11 is prophetic in nature, but I decided not to elaborate at that time.
Jesus stated that "there is nothing carefully concealed that will not be revealed, and [nothing] secret that will not become known (Luke 12:2), and making known the sacred secrets of God is exactly what Jehovah's Witnesses endeavor to do, but no one can make anyone read their Bible, to engage in personal study, to do research on the things they do not quite understand. Often when you cannot find the answer to a question, you need to ask someone that is more experienced than you are in the congregation to help you, even if the person from whom you seek help is not an elder or may be an elderly sister.
As I pointed out earlier, all Jehovah's Witnesses are stewards of God's word entrusted to spread the message of the kingdom to all who will listen. Not all elders are as knowledgeable as many of the sisters in the congregation, and some of the brothers that have been a part of the congregations for ten years or more are more knowledgeable than the local elders, but are barred from ever being appointed to serve as such because they may have conspired to divorce their former wife on unscriptural grounds, knowing that they would be disfellowshipped, in order to marry someone else in the congregation or from some other congregation.
Yes, sometimes brothers do make some rather serious mistakes, and the children from both marriages do tend to give the congregation a reminder of someone's sins foremost, but just because you may not have been able to find the answer to one or more of your questions does not mean that Jehovah's Witnesses never give the basis for "double fulfillment" of a Bible prophecy. Someone (I believe it was @Simon Morley and @caliber) asked me about "prophetic predictions," but like I stated above about "interpretive theory," Jehovah's Witnesses have our own terminology, and when we refer to prophetic types, prophetic parallels and prophetic elements, calling them prophetic patterns.
You indicated in your post that you have no recollection of studying about such things when you were regularly studying the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses in congregational meetings, such as during the many Watchtower studies you attended, but you should have learned that a type represents something that will come to pass in the future, whereas an antitype is the reality of what the type represents. The type is the "shadow;" whereas the antitype is the reality.
The Law had "a shadow of the good things to come" (Hebrews 10:1), as it foreshadowed things that pertained to the Christ, the priesthood was "a typical representation and a shadow of the heavenly things" (Hebrews 8:5) and festivals, sabbaths and the like were just types, whereas the antitypes represented the reality, which "belongs to the Christ." (Colossians 2:16, 17) It is a fact that as long as one remains in the faith, 'more will be given to him or her,' but if anyone should leave God's organization, for any reason, 'what he or she has will be taken away.' This is exactly what Jesus stated at Mark 4:25: "For he that has will have more given to him; but he that does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him."
There are prophecies in the Bible that have a minor fulfillment (that is, reality on a small scale) or partial fulfillment; and a major fulfillment (that is, reality on a full scale) for a complete or final fulfillment. Matthew 24:21 and Matthew 24:34 have both a minor and a major fulfillment. The prophecy at Isaiah 40:3-11 has a typical fulfillment in 537 BC, a minor fulfillment in 33 AD and a major fulfillment in 1919. The key to Bible prophecy is this: (1) The prophet must speak Jehovah's name; (2) the prophecy itself must encourage those hearing it turn to Jehovah (in true worship); and (3) the prophecy must have had a typical or a minor fulfillment. FYI, there is an article in the Watchtower [w94 2/15 "What Will be the Sign of Your Presence?"] that lists four indicia proving that Jesus' prophecy in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 was not limiting his prophecy to the tribulation that occurred in 70 AD.
As it provides the foundation for [your] belief (without it you have no 1914), I am surprised that JW's are unable answer the question. When JW's come to my door, they won't answer my questions. Why should I spend hours in a book study with them if they won't answer my questions?
Not all Jehovah's Witnesses know the answers to every question that someone might put to them. That is why it's up to us 'to keep on asking, keep on seeking, and keep on knocking,' just as you are doing here, if you wish to obtain answers to your questions. (Matthew 7:7) But whenever I should respond to one post, I may not necessarily respond to all of them in the same way since this is a forum. Often I will react and not respond to a post by not posting a response to it because I do not wish by my response to convey anger that I'm not really feeling, although if I do feel indignant over a comment that someone has made and I fear my response would be misconstrued as anger (when my motive for responding to someone's post is rooted in love and is never based on anger), I just won't respond at that time.
@Ultimate Reality:
I am not making an interpretive claim and therefore I do not need to provide evidence to support my claim.
I believe you do. I do not know to what you are referring.
The Society's prophetic assertions require evidence if we are to believe them.
This sounds like a double standard. It might not be, but based on what you just said in the previous sentence about your not needing to provide evidence to support your claim, I think the same thing must be true in this case if you don't need to provide any evidence. I do have evidence, but I'm just saying that this last sentence, which follows your previous one, is suspect.
For a specific example, how do we know that Matthew 24 has a secondary, larger fulfillment? That's a particularly important chapter since it contains the 'generation'.
You might want to read the Watchtower article (w94 2/15 "What Will be the Sign of Your Presence?"), which I referenced in my response to @MadDawg (above).
The concept that we take certain prophetic verses and make them have a 19th, 20th, or 21st century secondary application is based on human speculation.
If you're here telling me of the existence of such a "concept" that is based on human speculation, I can accept that, but you cannot be talking to me here about prophetic types (shadows) or prophetic antitypes (realities) that exist in the Bible.
If you do not understand these issues and neither do most of Jehovah's Witnesses, then why do you believe the claim? Do you even know the origin of this interpretive method? Origins are important -- just like the origins of Christmas!
I am a walking encyclopedia of knowledge and, as such, I have not clueless as are so many that have once upon a time studied the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses. You are asking me here about the origin of an "interpretive method" that you yourself brought up in referring to an "interpretive theory aka Parallel Dispensations. Whatever this "method" or "theory" is, I have no interest in learning its origin, so you're going to need to ask someone else. And what does any of this have to do with Christmas? Answer: Nothing!
Don't feel bad about not answering. I do know the answers and I have done a little more than just 'study' with Jehovah's Witnesses.
If you know the answers to your own questions, then why ask them of me? It's like you drove your car into my car repair facility and instructed me to change the thermostat in your car because your car keeps overheating, instead of asking me to run a diagnostic on your car in order to determine why it keeps overheating.
Now if you believe you know your car is overheating because of a bad thermostat and you want to save money on having a diagnostic test performed on your car, because you think such to be unnecessary, ok, but if your car should continue to overheat after the thermostat has been replaced, don't come back to me complaining about how your car is still overheating when you didn't ask me to run a diagnostic on your car in order to determine why it is overheating!
If you've done a little more than just study with Jehovah's Witnesses, I hope what "little more" you did proves to be helpful to you in your endeavor, whatever that endeavor is. But if what "little more" you did beyond studying with us is so that you might gain eternal life, you must come to Jesus; there's no other name under heaven by which we must get saved. (Acts 4:12) As Jesus said, "You are searching the Scriptures, because you think that by means of them you will have everlasting life; and these are the very ones that bear witness about me. And yet you do not want to come to me that you may have life." (John 5:39, 40)
@djeggnog
