the simplest of children can understand that jesus was talking about the 1st century "end of ............" jewish system.
there is no 19th, 20th, 21th, or 2xxth century fullfillment
Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?
by flipper 269 Replies latest jw friends
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djeggnog
@yknot:
Gee DJEggnut, still pretending to be a JW?
If I've been pretending, then you've not been paying attention.
Really you aren't fooling anyone, they see you for the tool you chose to be.....
Well, I have no comment, but just so you know, @yknot, as in that other thread, I will not in the future be responding to any more of these kinds of impertinent comments in this thread either.
I want to like you DJ, but you are so out of touch with reality it is scary...... I have rarely met persons with such a lack of discernment of BASIC WT application!
That you want to like me seems rather "scary" to me. By now, you must think me to be a mean person:
(1) You made some comment to me about prayer, and I pointed out to you that God doesn't hear the prayers of trinitarians. I didn't think that you would take offense over my remarks, but I didn't care.
(2) You made some remark about "divine nature" as if you understood the discussion that @Undisfellowshipped and I were having. I didn't much care to hear your comments on that topic because you know even less about what divine nature is than @Undisfellowshipped.
(3) You chided me for not knowing that there was no letter "j" in Hebrew language, primarily because you thought you knew something that I didn't know. I've been so looking forward to your proving a negative though.
(4) You charged that I didn't know the "organizational" definition of truth, and I suppose you are of the opinion that the truth is actually defined by an organization (one of your favorite words seems to me to be "organization").
(5) You had been noticeably disturbed over my seeming disconnectedness with the organizational history of Jehovah's Witnesses (there's that word you like again, "organization").
Now here you are again, @yknot, off-topic and saying absolutely nothing. If only you had something of substance to say to me....
@The Finger:
Thank you for taking the time to post Russell's views on the resurrection. I didn't mean to give the impression that JW's should be embracing the teachings of Russell however I do believe they should be honest as we all should be as we remember ananias and [sapphira] who were also imperfect.
I don't see the relevance of Ananias and Sapphira here, but ok.
The Watchtower I believe 1966 I'll just quote page 40
"By means of this visible, composite sign, over a million persons in all parts of the globe today acknowledge that they have been enabled to "see" "the sign of the Son of man" and to recognize its meaning.
I think the following to be a more complete quote:
By means of this visible, composite sign, over a million persons in all parts of the globe today acknowledge that they have been enabled to "see" "the sign of the Son of man" and to recognize its meaning. They have witnessed the way in which the evidence has piled up year after year for more than half a century, which evidence testifies to the fact that as of the year 1914 "the sign of the Son of man" appeared in heaven.
Jehovah's Witnesses no longer are of the belief that these million Jehovah's Witnesses in 1966 have ever seen "the sign of the Son of man" in heaven, or anywhere else for that matter. What is true though in the article from which your quote came is the following:
This visible sign follows after and results from the invisible "sign of the Son of man," since it is composed of the many events and conditions that the Bible foretold would follow and result from the establishment of Christ’s Kingdom rule.
There has been an adjustment in our view, for we now know that "the sign of the Son of man" will not appear in heaven until Jesus' second coming, which follows the great tribulation.
@Mad Dawg:
Eggnog, [Russell] did not predict an invisible coming of Christ in 1914. You know it and I know it. Right?
You're right and I acknowledged this very point (and my error) the other day.
Presumably, if you and I know it, the WTS knows it today as well. Agree?
Agreed.
If the WTS knows that Chuck did not predict the invisible coming of Christ in 1914, why don’t they correct this error among the R&F JW’s?
Can you post here a citation from any of the WTS' publications that specifically indicate that Russell predicted "the invisible coming of Christ in 1914"? I'm not sure I've ever read anything that even comes close to such a statement.
This matters for two reasons:
· The WTS uses words they put in Chuck’s mouth to give themselves [legitimacy].
· If they can’t be trusted to tell the truth on such a basic level, how can we trust them with anything else?
These things you say here are just allegations, opinions that you believe to be true with which I disagree. I'd like to read one of these WTS publications wherein it is stated how Russell actually made a prediction as to "the invisible coming of Christ in 1914." Do you have anything like that?
@DaCheech:
the simplest of children can understand that jesus was talking about the 1st century "end of ............" jewish system. there is no 19th, 20th, 21th, or 2xxth century fullfillment
Well, children will pretty much believe anything you tell them and draw whatever conclusion you tell them they must draw, but only a simple adult would buy into this viewpoint that you're sharing with me here. (I'm not a simple adult so you're going to have do better.)
@djeggnog
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yknot
Yep....
Eggnog once again shows his DISLOYALTY to the Org but still insists he is a JW.....
Dude seriously, if you wanna claim JW, at least discern basic Organizational rules, beliefs and principles.
Anything else DJ and you are just another apotate to the Org......
Really such 'independent thinking' on your part should be shunned, why even 'true anointed' follow and submit to the GB's theocratic order!
The fact that you don't discern that the WTS has a definition of 'Truth' and you have yet to find it on the WTCD just shows how much you hate being bested by a girl and we both know your ego can't stand that for you are 'a god' in your own mind.........but at least I know the what the 'truth' is, was and will always be.....it doesn't change, it can't because the whole of the Org is built upon it's foundation!
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allelsefails
DJ - Dont mean to but in, however dont you see that Jesus prophecy in the first century was amazing. He said that the end would come within a generation of those who saw him. And it DID! 37 years later! A biblical generation has ALWAYS been 40 years.
(IE ... Moses proclaimed God's judgement on Israel as this generation shall pass away .... 40 years of wandering in the wilderness.)
(FYI - Annaias and Saphira LIED and were put to death by God even tho there sin was not a great one. It was dishonesty that caused God's disfavor. Most people I've read have the same problem with JW's Org. They hide their mistakes and blame Jehovah for their changes in "understanding". The real problem is a group of men who are guessing at truth and unwilling to admit they have no divine direction,)
Never has the word Generation been defined the way the JW's define it now. Not in scripture or the English language could a generation be more than 80 years.
Stuff to think about.
Allelsefails
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The Finger
Djeggnog,
I think your bottom line so to speak is that it doesn't really matter what is taught or preached as long as you join in with the "anointed" in preaching whatever they are proclaiming at the time as this is the truth on the day. So how do you identify the anointed? Because they preach the 2nd coming as invisible and that we are in it? If i disagree with you on the presence of Christ and will not preach it will I be saved? Russell wanted the churches of his day to join him in preaching Christ invisible return in 187something. What if you refused to join him? Couldn't agree with that rubbish. How about the (lol) picture in the proclaimers book of the hut with the millions now living will never die, What if you walked past and said "Tripe" and continued to believe that Christ died for you?
I don't need you to answer. I was a strong JW for over 30 years. But you should think about what has been preached in God's name.
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yknot
Invisble presences was officially taught 1874 until 1943, at that time the parousia was shifted to 1914.
Christ 'enthronement' was 1878 until 1922 (i think I might be off a year)......
The resurrection of anointed remain 1878 until the early 1930s when Rutherford decided holy spirit had been taken away, angels were in charge and retrodated these teachings to 1918 along with the resurrection of anointed.
Holy Spirit wasn't a guiding force in the WTS afterwards until the Knorr administration reversed Rutherford's claims........light seems to keep transforming itself with a flip and a flop......
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hamsterbait
OH, DEAR GOD
HB
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wasblind
" Holy Spirit wasn't a guiding force in the WTS afterwards until the Knorr administration reversed Rutherford's claims........light seems to keep transforming itself with a flip and a flop...... "
And the key word is TRANSFORMING
2 Corinthians 11:14 "And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light."
it differs from the light getting brighter or advancing light, transform means to change completely
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dssynergy
on my visit to Bethel last week, someone who has regular contact with the GB explained it to me and stated that the FDS was being careful not to be date setters, because that get's them into trouble. But that there was a need to clarify the meaning of "generation" and that it referred to a group of people who shared an experience and that it did NOT infer an unending period of time.
I mentioned to him that that it was not clear from reading the snippet in the magazine that that is what they were implying and that it seemed like the comment was sort of plopped in the middle of an unrelated article. He did not comment on that.
I told him that the subject of the generation is so deep, it would be nice to have more in depth coverage of the subject so that we could all understand the FDS' reasoning for the new understanding.
It was clear to me from my visit, that they do sincerely believe they are carrying out God's work and that there is no malice - at least in this man - ... I think they are a very imperfect set of men.
My jury is still out about whether they are really God's Channel.
DS
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letsslatejws
@djeggnog
The Faithful & discreet Slave are there to provide food at the proper time...
They havent & instead they have dished up Dog food in that they have continually had to change the very core teachings of the WBTS organisation. Prophesy after Prophesy has been written about in the WT and each time what has been written has failed to come true. Each time this happens the WBTS suddenly states we have got new light and changes everything all over again! If we were in the very last days (as we are so meant to be), then dont you think that Jehovah would have made sure that the WBTS had got the very core teachings right ????
What happened to:
The King of the North? JW's had so much interest in this but now its never mentioned in the WT....
What about whenever they are crying True peace and Security - The international cry of Peace & Security was in 1986 ... Again no WT comments just continued speculation...
The 1914 Article that stated Millions Living Will Never Die.... It should have read Millions Living Now Will All Die...
All of the failed prophesies that the WBTS have made, makes them clearly the False Prophet. Blind Leading the Blind. Jesus Warned against these. Unfortunately you sit there week after week and have become brainwashed by WBTS teachings. Jesus said that many would say lord lord did we not prophesy in your name, and Jesus would say get away from me you workers of lawlessness.
Since everyone in the KH sits there like nodding dogs you have no ability left to question what you hear. You accept it as Fact !!!! In fact if you were toquery / question anytyhing then you would immediately be called apostate. They would belittle you inferring that you are a babe who hasnt gotten off the milk onto the solid food because you are questioning the elementary things!!! You need to sit up and become a true borean and research and question everything. To start with use all the Old WT articles, that way you wont think you are being hood winked by Satan ! Unfortunately the WBTS doesnt want you to do this because if you did you would actually wake up and find out the real Truth....
I pray one day that you wake up and realise that you are in a CULT.
By the Way I care for nothing that my grammer is wrong. Nor care that what Ive written is incorrectly punctuated. All I care about is that the content of what I have written is listened to and not brushed under the carpet, and filed in the bin.
I lost 21 years to JW's / WTBS, my husband 43 years. I truly hope you wake up soon and realise that you have been lied to year in year out.
Love to you & big hugs because your going to need it..... xxx