Justification, Sanctification, Substitutionary Atonement is Officially OUT Says WT

by Perry 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  designs

  DD-

  Yes, Wesley's ideas on Prevenient Grace were a good antidote for Calvin's Pre-Destination and Election of the Elect.

  You can see groups like the LDS and Witnesses as Cults and I agree, from my real life experience attending various Churches I would expand the parameters and include the Calvary groups, Baptists and others. Stand up in a Presbyterian Men's Bible Study group and openly argue against the Westminster Confession sometime and see how welcome you are, or try to take Communion in a Conservative Lutheran church without being a member and going through their catechism.

  As to why more JWs are partaking, without them being fully cognizant of the historical underpinnings they are acting out exactely the ideological battle Calvin and Wesley had 500 years ago- Prevenient Grace vs Election of the Elect. the old becomes new and history repeats itself.
• 

  cattails

  I hate hearing about Calvin, after what I learned happened to Servetus at the hands of Calvinists!

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Servetus

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Calvin#Michael_Servetus_.281553.29
• 

  Scully

  So really, the religion should be called Jehovah's Bystanders, because only the "elite" among the worshippers will go to heaven, while the rest of them are merely observers and slaves of The Slave™.
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  Deputy Dog

  designs

  Yes, Wesley's ideas on Prevenient Grace were a good antidote for Calvin's Pre-Destination and Election of the Elect.

  As you know I take Calvin and Luthers side on sovereign grace and election. That doesn't mean Wesley and Arminians are cults.

  You can see groups like the LDS and Witnesses as Cults and I agree, from my real life experience attending various Churches I would expand the parameters and include the Calvary groups, Baptists and others.

  That makes no sense, most if not all Calvary Chapels and about half of the Baptists would side with Wesley.

  Stand up in a Presbyterian Men's Bible Study group and openly argue against the Westminster Confession sometime and see how welcome you are, or try to take Communion in a Conservative Lutheran church without being a member and going through their catechism.

  As you know I believe the Westminster Confession of faith, but, that's not the deviding line, the bible is. Why force yourself on them? Does the Westminster Confession make a group a cult? Why do you find falt with churches who simply want to worship with people of like faith? They don't shun those that disagree with them as cults do. They don't try to break up families like the JWs or Mormons.

  The irony is many if not most churchs today cater more to the nonbeliever than the believer.
• 

  Black Sheep

  Jehovah's Bystanders

  Back when my parents joined, it was something like that. Only the annointed were Jehovah's witnesses. The Jonadabs, like my parents, were just hangers on.
• 

  Perry

  Only the annointed were Jehovah's witnesses. The Jonadabs, like my parents, were just hangers on.

  I remember that Black Sheep. The old timers when I was a kid used to speak fondly of those days of Jonadabs. They were kinda like"helpers" or something.

  Most JW's have no idea that this is STILL current WT theology. Officially, Witnesses do not experience justification in this life and so a personal judgment must be done away with in order to cope with this glaring theological hole. Justification by faith is replaced with WORK.

  The February 15, 1991 issue of the
  Watchtower, pgs. 15-20 paragraph 11; makes this
  announcement:

  11 Nevertheless, in a preliminary way, the great
  crowd have already “washed their robes and made
  them white in the blood of the Lamb.” (Revelation
  7:14)Christ does not act as Mediator of the new
  covenant toward them, yet they benefit from this
  covenant through the work of God?s Kingdom.

  The reality is that JW's look for their own works in carrying out WT directives to save them from judgment. And like Skully said, they are slaves of the Slave. Or, more theologically relevant is to state that the WT is their Mediator between them and God.
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  designs

  It is true that our former religion has some very Calvinistic related beliefs with a little Vicarius Christi thrown in for good measure.

  But to become a Fundamentalist is a step off of a very huge cliff.

  That's not progress that's a return to the Darkest mindset of religious superstition.
• 

  Deputy Dog

  designs

  But to become a Fundamentalist is a step off of a very huge cliff.

  That looks like JW speak. Did you believe that before you became a JW? Or did they teach you that?
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  leavingwt

  The irony is many if not most churchs today cater more to the nonbeliever than the believer.

  Why cater, if it's all Predestined? Just tell them about Hell and let the cookies crumble. God's Will cannot be stopped.
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  Deputy Dog

  leaving

  Why cater, if it's all Predestined? Just tell them about Hell and let the cookies crumble.

  Good question. That's what most Calvinists do. But, most churches aren't true Calvinists.

  Most Calvinists will tell you they preach about Hell and Salvation (the Gospel) because the bible tells them to, then let the cookies crumble.