why would I avoid the DF?
Definitely getting DF'ed now
by notverylikely 150 Replies latest jw friends
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hotchocolate
Well for me, it means that the tag is not stamped on my forehead and leaves the way open for my family, or other JWs to still quietly be in contact without "breaking the rules". If you don't have family in, I wouldn't bother.
What do you mean about taking it up the butt in the short term? Missed that point, sorry. Remember that the witnesses have the lowest retention rate of every other religion in the US. Odds are your kids will leave anyway.
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notverylikely
by taking it up the ass I meant losing all my fake friends and having to adjust to account for alimony and child support.
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cognizant dissident
Notverylikely doesn't really have control over whether his wife chooses to divorce him or whether the elders choose to df him. It's possible they won't but not very likely. :-)
All you can really control is being the best father you can be to those kids and take care of yourself. Don't muddy things with another relationship right now. I see the "cheating" as merely symptomatic of a relationship that was already seriously on the rocks.
Even if she did forgive you and wanted to work it out, it would only be on her terms. You would have to do all the working, all the changing, or all the faking, because in her eyes, you are the one who is 100% wrong. I don't want to be pessismistic but I don't really see how any marriage can survive with one an apostate and one an uber righteous JW. The way that JW's are taught to view apostates really is death to any kind of healthy, intimate relationship. They just don't have the ability or willingness to look at matters from another person's perspective.
I speak from recent experience, years of marriage counseling and a divorce thats about to be finalized.
Cog
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tec
All you can really control is being the best father you can be to those kids and take care of yourself.
I agree. And if you can't fake it anymore, then don't. Personally, I believe that honesty is the best policy. I understand everyone who fades because that is what's best for them and theirs. But you have to do what's best for you and yours.
I'm sorry to hear about your troubles, NVL. I truly am. You can tell your wife that you don't want a divorce. You can tell her that you want your marriage to work, with respect for both of you. You can tell her that you love her and your children. You can tell her that you need a break from talking about all this religion.
It is, of course, best to do this while calm.
What she does after that is up to her. You control yourself, not your wife. Do the best you can - that's all anyone can do - and let the chips fall where they will.
My boys are the same age difference as your kids, btw, just one year older.
Strength to you,
Tammy
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AGuest
Ahhhh, dearest NVL... the greatest of love and peace to you. Seriously. In ALL sincerity. But, unfortunately, the only one I can agree with here is dear TrueOne: there are good ways... and bad ways... to leave the WTBTS... and regardless of your wife's conduct, you cannot blame her for yours. As adults, we are ALL individually responsible for the choices we make, including who we marry... what religion we follow... and what we do as a consequence. You have now given your wife reason to believe your rejection of the WTBTS is false, with no basis whatsoever other than a cover-up for your "biblical crimes" against her. True, she had no grounds to withhold the marriage due (based on what you've shared), but you cannot point to that for your own failure in this regard... regardless of whether folks repeatedly try allow you to, their love and good intentions notwithstanding.
So, what should you do? Sigh. With regard to her, one thing - tell her the TRUTH. Starting with the TRUTH that you do not believe the WTBTS to be who they say they are... that you do NOT wish your marriage to end (if that is the TRUTH)... but understand if she does because she now has that right... that you do NOT wish to lose association with your children... but that you cannot/will not teach them to follow a false religion... that you did what you did because you were ANGRY WITH HER for trying to manipulate you by using whatever circumstances SHE did to withhold the marriage due... and so YOU allowed such anger to allow YOU to "allow place for the Devil"... and, while you're NOT blaming her for YOUR conduct, your failure to understand just how she felt justified in not observing her obligations to you in this regard... were contributory.
Tell her... if it is the TRUTH, of course... that you are more than willing to work with her to oversome your differences... but your understand that if she can't... or is unwilling... then perhaps it must be that way... but UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES do you want your children to be dragged into this or used in ANY way... that, rather, you WANT to see and be a part of your children's lives... but that it is up to her because you won't be a part of putting them in the middle of this matter... and so, if you have to wait until their adults to tell them what YOUR truth is, if they will permit you to do so then... then that MAY be the way it has to be... but is NOT how you WANT it to be...
Tell her... if it is the TRUTH, of course... that you love her AND them... but that you CANNOT follow what you know to be a false prophet ANY longer, that your common sense, reasoning abilities... and conscience... will NOT allow it... and that, right now, you don't even believe in God BECAUSE of their falsehood (if that is the truth!)...
Tell her... if it is the TRUTH, of course... that you have not concluded your search for God (or that you have)... but you know for a certainty that He is NOT "in" the WTBTS... and that if SHE continues to force your children into that organization, although you won't oppose her... your position is that how they turn out is now fully in HER hands... not yours... because you simply cannot be a part of such misleadings...
And then... man up. Take your licks, however, they may come. Because the truth is that you put yourself in this position. Since you didn't keep yourself "clean" in this matter, you really don't have any grounds to stand on, truthfully. You put yourself at her mercy and so now you must reap the additional consequences, if any, including being at her mercy when it comes to the children. Whether you get through it or not, however... and how... is entirely up to you.
I promise you, though... if you think your life is gonna be better by blaming her for YOUR conduct... you are mistaken. Neither my Lord... nor the conscience... work that way. If you want peace... TRUE peace... you need to be HONEST about you... yourself... what's been going on with you... your conduct... what you REALLY want... and what REALLY occurred... and is occurring... with you... with yourself... first... and then her, if you can. If she will permit it. If she can handle it.
And certainly, with the Most Holy One of Israel... if you can bring yourself to even "go there." If you can... and truly believe you can, if you can get past your self-assuming pride... then ALL you need to do is ask forgiveness for YOUR part in THIS matter... and then put faith in that forgiveness... and ask my Lord for his peace... then put faith in that peace... and go forward from there. Just leave the rest to him.
Because, otherwise, it really is out of your hands at this point, isn't it?
I bid you peace, dear NVL. Truly. I do not mean to inflame or cause you pain of any sort. I only mean to be truthful with you. Because you need... and DESERVE that. From me... and from yourself.
Your servant... as I am servant to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with... and a slave of Christ,
SA
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darkuncle29
Here is a very low handed almost evil idea.
Premise: If she has sex with you, that means that she has forgiven you for the infidelities. therefore she could not obtain a scriptural divorce.
I know that this used to be the standard the elders went by, but i do not know if it still is.
I understand about not "pretending" anymore, it doesn't have to be an ego thing, be true to yourself.
I recommend speaking with an attourney, and if you are going to divorce, to try to file first.
Sorry dude, good luck.
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jamiebowers
So sorry to hear about all that you're going through. You will do whatever you want to do, but I hope you take the time to forgive yourself for the adultery. I truly don't understand people who withhold sex from their spouse and then act surprised when that spouse goes elsewhere. I also don't understand how a person could live with a spouse while withholding sex. If the person is that reugnant, then set them free. Anyway, I also hope you take the time to tell your kids that the marriage breaking up is not their fault. Please get some legal advice and some counseling. You're going to need both.
Although this probbly seems like the end of the world, it's not. And you will come out of this stronger and eventually happier.
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Pistoff
If you want to avoid df'ing:
My advice: deny what you told your wife, in front of the elders; say that she is premenstrual, say she had a bad day and misunderstood what you said.
DENY that you had an affair, and do it credibly, then fade away.
(Or, say that you were sorely tempted because of the distance your wife put between you; elders do not like to hear that wives deny their husbands sex for any reason).
Say that you believe this is God's organization, that you are discouraged. Separate the issues of sex from the organization.
You CAN NOT get what you want by telling her, or the elders, the truth. It will feel good, even great, but it will leave you worse off.
SUCK up to the elders.
REMEMBER: it is her word against yours in front of the elders; they can not df you based on her word alone, if you deny it.
Remember, you did not make the rules that they live by, and they are repulsive to you now, as to me; but they simply cannot reason, or accept an honest divorce, or even honest criticism.
If you remember that it is like talking to 5 year olds, you will be better off.
Call me if you want.
P
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moshe
It won't be easy for your wife to find another JW husband. My ex-wife found out that no brother wanted to get in the middle of being a step father to kids who had an apostate dad. Plus, he would be in the middle, too. Visitations, phone calls, school,etc. That apostate dad (me) had such a contaminating affect on his kids that they were afraid it would spill over onto their family, too. She ended up marrying a worldly man with a prescription drug addiction 10 years later- after the kids were raised and gone. Of course, she had quit going to the KH long before that.
Marriage counseling is a good idea- I tried it. While it did not work in my case ( wife went only 2x), it did help me to realize that trying to keep our marriage intact was a lost cause, unless I was willing to undergo a lobotomy.