Hierosolyma Perdita Est or Hierosolyma Est Perdita?

by snowbird 35 Replies latest social entertainment

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  JWoods

  But that construction leaves out the verb "is" altogether, correct, Undercover?

  I think snowbird is asking where you put the verb in Latin - midsentence, or at the end.
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  undercover

  I don't know Latin, I barely speak decent English...

  But I can cut and paste wiki info...
• 

  BurnTheShips

  I believe "est" should come last.

  Hierosolyma perdita est.

  I only say this because I am reminded of a famous quote with a similar construction:

  Cartago delenda est.

  But I defer to any non-poseurs that would come along to correct me.

  BTS
• 

  snowbird

  "Carthage must be destroyed!"

  Marcus Porcius Cato.

  LOL @ non-poseur.

  Syl
• 

  Leolaia

  Word order in Latin was flexible but was used primarily to indicate emphasis, with the first and last words of the clause being important positions of emphasis, although final position may not be a position of emphasis in a given case. Often the verb is final and the subject is initial because these are the two most likely elements in a clause to be emphasized. But in the case of "Jerusalem is destroyed", the participle would certainly have been emphasized over the empty copula verb (est). So I think the word order having est in the middle is a little more natural, but then again it depends on specific grammatical constructions. Now I'm not sure whether perdita is the right word to express the destruction of a city; I think a lexical check might be good to be sure.

  ETA: I just checked the book Latin Word Order: Structured Meaning and Information. The copula frequently occurs in the final position when there is a relative clause, when the clause is negated (with it following non), and sometimes when the predicate has been raised leftward stranding the copula. It also says that est is more likely to be final if it is an identity sentence (e.g. The President is Barack Obama) than a predicational sentence like The President is very liberal, in the latter "the copula is a light verb which adds nothing to the meaning beyond signaling the predicative type" (p. 205). It also says that "it is more usual for the predicate to precede the subject, usually with the copula intervening, type si riguus est locus" (p. 206), with a tail subject. In this case, the sentence would be more like Perdita est Hierosolyma.
• 

  BurnTheShips

  And of course, the Leo pops up!

  Rowr!

  BTS
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  snowbird

  Now I'm not sure whether perdita is the right word to express the destruction of a city; I think a lexical check might be good to be sure.

  That should have been, "Jerusalem is lost."

  Syl
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  Leolaia

  Here is a syntactic tree for that structure:

  

  The position of emphasis is the Specifier of CP (complement phrase), to which the predicate AP has moved from out of the VP, and with it has moved the verb from the head position of the VP to the head position of the CP.
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  snowbird

  Can't see anything, Leo.

  Syl
• 

  RubaDub

  Uprisings against Jews in Germany and other countries during the early 19th century were called Hep-Hep Riots.

  Wouldn't that more properly be referred to as the Hebe-Hebe Riots ?

  Rub a Dub