IF THE BIBLE is so darned great---why don't people JUST read IT?

by Terry 108 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  djeggnog

  @Psacramento:

  I personally like the "without question" part, the air of authority made my skin tingle, LOL ! I notice NO MENTION of the role of the HS in there, interesting.

  Why would you skin tingle? Jehovah is the Universal Sovereign and if you do not want to live under the rulership of His son, Jesus Christ, without your questioning his authority to rule as king over you, then that's your choice to make now and you will get your wish!

  Of course the bible doesn't [really] speak of any visible organization or group per [se], other than the apostles and even of those, only John, James and Peter are mentioned, beyond them there was Stephen who was stoned ( only a disciple), there was Jude ( of the epistles) and we know of Mark and Luke and of course Paul, none of them apostles, and beyond them, [certain] individuals are named because of their contributions, but a "[visible] channel" doing God and Jesus's work? No, not unless by "visible channel" you mean inspired individuals, in that case I agree.

  So you'd like to think of the first century congregations that were being formed in this place and that as being autonomous units doing their own thing and that the letters that we read in the Bible were being sent to one or two of these congregations and not to all of them in some organized fashion. That's fine, and it's also fine that you read in the Bible how Paul took a dispute over Christian circumcision to "the apostles and older men in Jerusalem," who acted as a governing body during the first century AD to be decided there along with the holy spirit, so that a letter from the governing body was handed to the multitude of Christians in Antioch, Syria. (Acts 15:2-30)

  Jesus said the ... HS would guide his followers and that the HS would teach them, I don't recall him mentioning a "visible organization".

  When I read the Acts of the Apostles, I take away from it an organized ministerial work taking place with each one in each congregation that Paul and Barnabas visited being a part of a visible organization that were being strengthened and receiving encouragement from those taking the lead, men that were sent to them by the governing body.

  Now whether you personally should have a problem with those being appointed to take the lead in God's visible organization today and in being submissive, they are still the ones that have been given these spiritual assignments in Christ "as those who will render an account" (Hebrews 13:17), even if you should choose not to be submissive to them. You are a grown man and are free to choose which God you will obey, which God you will serve, but there are only two, and one of them is not the true God, but is a false god, the god of this system of things, who takes all worship not directed to the true God, Jehovah. (2 Kings 19:15; 2 Corinthians 4:4)

  IOW, if you're not serving the true God, then you're serving God's adversary; there is no neutral place between my opinion and yours. There's no "highway." It's either God's way or Satan's, and making the wrong choice will lead to your death. (1 Kings 18:21) However, your failure to submit to their Christ-given authority will be wholly damaging to you.

  @djeggnog
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  PSacramento

  Why would you skin tingle? Jehovah is the Universal Sovereign and if you do not want to live under the rulership of His son, Jesus Christ, without your questioning his authority to rule as king over you, then that's your choice to make now and you will get your wish!

  The way it was said, it was so "watchtowerish", LOL !
  Just remember, your opinion is ONLY that, yours, it doesn't make it right or worng, just your opinion.

  So you'd like to think of the first century congregations that were being formed in this place and that as being autonomous units doing their own thing and that the letters that we read in the Bible were being sent to one or two of these congregations and not to all of them in some organized fashion. That's fine, and it's also fine that you read in the Bible how Paul took a dispute over Christian circumcision to "the apostles and older men in Jerusalem," who acted as a governing body during the first century AD to be decided there along with the holy spirit, so that a letter from the governing body was handed to the multitude of Christians in Antioch, Syria. (Acts 15:2-30)

  Subjective and isolated reading does NOT a faith make.

  When I read the Acts of the Apostles...

  Maybe reading the REST of the NT would be ok too, just a suggestion ;)

  In Acts how did they choose a 'replacement" for Judas?

  They drew LOTS between 2 people.

  They trusted the HS to guide them and when Paul arrived it was because of the HS that guided HIM AND THEM and not because of any "visible organization" that they accepted him and his message and CHANGED the rules they were trying to impose on the Gentiles.

  There is NO downplaying of the HS and of Jesus, they was their guide, their teacher and their inspiration, to them and ALL the other Christians at the time and to this day.

  As Jesus said and John wrote:

  26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.
• 

  serenitynow!

  I always wonder if the bible is authentic and really meant to be a guidebook for everyone, why is it that your average person can't read and understand it? I mean some parts make sense, but the prophecies, the symbolism- why make it difficult? If to have salvation you need to read and live by it, then why make it impossible for a person of average intelligence to understand the entire bible? I think that it just sets up the opportunity to have select people claim to have complete understanding, thereby enslaving the common person who must rely on them for interpretation.
• 

  djeggnog

  @Psacramento:

  The way it was said, it was so "watchtowerish", LOL ! Just remember, your opinion is ONLY that, yours, it doesn't make it right or worng, just your opinion.

  Well, I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, not someone studying to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses, but someone that is qualified to teach others the things that the Bible teaches, including both active Jehovah's Witnesses and those that are no longer Jehovah's Witnesses. Whenever I speak anything, I may speak both my words and by means of God's holy spirit, for what things I speak to you from the Bible are the very things that you can read for yourself in your own copy of the Bible, which book came to be written by means of holy spirit. Understand? Probably not. I've spoken similar words to active Jehovah's Witnesses and many of them have not been taught how the holy spirit operates.

  @djeggnog wrote:

  So you'd like to think of the first century congregations that were being formed in this place and that as being autonomous units doing their own thing and that the letters that we read in the Bible were being sent to one or two of these congregations and not to all of them in some organized fashion. That's fine, and it's also fine that you read in the Bible how Paul took a dispute over Christian circumcision to "the apostles and older men in Jerusalem," who acted as a governing body during the first century AD to be decided there along with the holy spirit, so that a letter from the governing body was handed to the multitude of Christians in Antioch, Syria. (Acts 15:2-30)

  @Psacramento wrote:

  Subjective and isolated reading does NOT a faith make. When I read the Acts of the Apostles... Maybe reading the REST of the NT would be ok too, just a suggestion ;) In Acts how did they choose a 'replacement" for Judas? They drew LOTS between 2 people. They trusted the HS to guide them and when Paul arrived it was because of the HS that guided HIM AND THEM and not because of any "visible organization" that they accepted him and his message and CHANGED the rules they were trying to impose on the Gentiles.

  You would seem to be suggesting here that I have not read anything in the Bible, except the Acts of the Apostles. I had stated in my previous post how "the apostles and older men in Jerusalem," acting as a governing body, had decided the circumcision issue "along with the holy spirit," but I think it more likely than not that you really didn't comprehend what it was that had occurred on this occasion, like those folks that had only received John's baptism and had said to Paul, "Why, we have never heard whether there is a holy spirit," at Acts 19:2, leading to their having to be baptized again, but in Jesus' baptism. Like many Jehovah's Witnesses, ex or active, you may not understand how, when reference is made to the holy spirit speaking, it is typically a way of saying that the words being spoken were the holy writings written by men that had been inspired by holy spirit to write them. Here's an explanatory note:

  At Acts 15:16-18, James there says how "it is written" that "people of all the nations" would be called by God's name, quoting Amos 9:11, 12, and then James and Peter and the rest of the men sitting as a governing body there in Jerusalem wrote the following letter to all of the congregations at Acts 15:24-28:

  Since we have heard that some from among us have caused you trouble with speeches, trying to subvert your souls, although we did not give them any instructions, we have come to a unanimous accord and have favored choosing men to send to you together with our loved ones, Bar´na·bas and Paul, men that have delivered up their souls for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We are therefore dispatching Judas and Silas, that they also may report the same things by word. For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you....

  Notice in this letter how it refers to "we" not giving anyone "any instructions," but that "we have come to a unanimous accord" and how "the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden" to the Gentile Christians. Here this letter refers to the words of the prophet Amos as "the holy spirit" since it was by means of God's spirit that the prophet spoke. So like when at Mark 12:36, Jesus said that David said, "Jehovah said to my Lord: 'Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet,'" Jesus was referring to what had been written at Psalm 110:1 "by the holy spirit." Also, at Hebrews 3:7-11, the apostle Paul wrote:

  For this reason, just as the holy spirit says: "Today if you people listen to his own voice, do not harden your hearts as on the occasion of causing bitter anger, as in the day of making the test in the wilderness, in which your forefathers made a test of me with a trial, and yet they had seen my works for forty years. For this reason I became disgusted with this generation and said, ‘They always go astray in their hearts, and they themselves have not come to know my ways.’ So I swore in my anger, ‘They shall not enter into my rest.’"

  Here the holy spirit speaks through this psalm of Moses at Psalm 95:7-11, which psalm he quotes to make the point that it is possible for Christians to enter into God's rest. (Hebrews 4:11) The only point I'll make is that whenever anyone at all quotes from any verse from the Holy Scriptures, from the inspired word of God, it is not them speaking at that moment, but is the holy spirit that is speaking, and anyone that seeks does listen to what the holy spirit says is guilty of "resisting the holy spirit," just as Stephen said at Acts 7:51 the Jewish religious leaders had done in murdering the Christ.

  @djeggnog
• 

  Mary

  Luther was full of wild blueberry muffins if you ask me.

  Mmmmm.......wild blueberry muffins........
• 

  djeggnog

  @serenitynow!:

  I always wonder if the bible is authentic and really meant to be a guidebook for everyone, why is it that your average person can't read and understand it? I mean some parts make sense, but the prophecies, the symbolism- why make it difficult? If to have salvation you need to read and live by it, then why make it impossible for a person of average intelligence to understand the entire bible? I think that it just sets up the opportunity to have select people claim to have complete understanding, thereby enslaving the common person who must rely on them for interpretation.

  The Bible was written for Jehovah's Witnesses in order to help others learn and understand what God is saying. I've said this before and I'll say it again that Jehovah has but one visible channel through whom He communicates His will and purpose, and during the first century AD, that channel was by means of the Lord Jesus Christ and the apostles and other Christians, and his organization today is the channel that God is using today. In fact, what Jesus launched was a Bible-education program through the Christian congregation, and this Bible-education program is still being undertaken worldwide by Jehovah's Witnesses.

  While some of those that formerly studied with Jehovah's Witnesses have left us and joined one of Christendom's churches or may have started one of their own churches and have made use of what scriptural knowledge that may have learned from us to develop sermons, and they eventually must throw a little leaven into what they teach in order to collect those unscriptural tithes, Jehovah has nonetheless continued to bless the efforts of Jehovah's Witnesses.

  Now Philip assisted an Ethiopian man, who had been reading the book of Isaiah, but without really understanding what he was reading about the Messiah, so Philip helped the man to understand the meaning of what he had been reading at Isaiah 53:7. Reading the Bible on our own is not enough, for the Bible makes clear that we will need help to understand it, which is the reason apostles, prophets, missionaries, shepherds and teachers were provided, Christ gave "gifts in men" for this very purpose. (Acts 8:26-39; Ephesians 4:8) The Bible is not written in such a way that you can understand it without the help of someone having God's spirit.

  At Romans 10:14, Paul wrote: "How will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn, will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach?" Face it: You are simply not going to be able to read the Bible on your own with understanding. You will not get very far without the help of a preacher.

  The faithful and discreet slave was appointed by Christ to provide spiritual food and nourishments to its domestics and this F&DS is the true Christian congregation of Jesus' anointed brothers. (Matthew 24:45, 46) These are the primary ones to whom Jesus gave the commission to preach and make disciples of people of all nations, and so those of us what are associated with the true Christian congregation are a part of the channel that Jehovah is using to complete the preaching work. It is through the congregation that "the greatly diversified wisdom of God" is being taught. (Ephesians 3:10, 11) Reading the Bible is important, but understanding what it means and exhorting others to apply what it says in their lives are also important. (1 Timothy 4:13)

  @djeggnog
• 

  garyneal

  djeggnog

  The Bible was written for Jehovah's Witnesses in order to help others learn and understand what God is saying.

  Wha?!

  While some of those that formerly studied with Jehovah's Witnesses have left us and joined one of Christendom's churches or may have started one of their own churches and have made use of what scriptural knowledge that may have learned from us to develop sermons, and they eventually must throw a little leaven into what they teach in order to collect those unscriptural tithes, Jehovah has nonetheless continued to bless the efforts of Jehovah's Witnesses.

  Yeah that 1914, 1975, and that generation thing was so pure and unleavened. Jehovah is continuing to bless those efforts.

  The faithful and discreet slave was appointed by Christ to provide spiritual food and nourishments to its domestics and this F&DS is the true Christian congregation of Jesus' anointed brothers.

  In 1919, right?
• 

  cyberjesus

  God wrote the bible for JWs to interpret it to the people. the millions of people who lived before the JWs are ignored by God. God decided to use 70 percent of the bible for useless information that doesnt apply to non JWs and another 20 that doesnt apply for this era.

  God could have written a 20 page tract on 1874 and that would have had better results
• 

  just n from bethel

  This is awesome - Terry starts a thread about how there are all these books and ideas that explain the various ways the Bible can be interpreted. He basically asks why can't the Bible have a simple, clear, unwavering message that is not up for interpretation ... and... is backed by authority that provides irrefutable proof of its divine nature.

  Two pages in... various believers in the bible DJegg, PSac, JagBass, etc. start arguing about how it's supposed to be interpreted.

  Thanks guys - you all continue to prove Terry's point.

  PS - I love how some just say how great they feel after reading it - must be holy spirit. I just watched Hot Tub Time Machine and I felt great and elated as well. I think I could watch that and The Hangover several more times - perhaps over and over and feel elated as well. Does that mean those movies were from holy spirit?
• 

  just n from bethel

  Oh and to give a direct answer to Terry's question about why people don't read the Bible:

  

  I guess the Author never figured a 1/4 of the world would be illiterate.