Jacob I loved, Esau I hated!

AIRVIEW1

Only some of the people of Israel are truly God's people,and only some of Abraham's desendants are the true children of Abraham. Abraham's true children are those who become GOD'S children because of the promise GOD made to Abraham. Before the two boys were born, GOD told Rebekah,"The older will serve the younger". This was before the boys were born and had done nothing good or bad. God said this so that the one chosen would be chosen because of GOD's OWN PLAN. He was chosen simply because he was the one GOD wanted to call, NOT because of anything he did. As the scriptures says, "I loved Jacob, but I hated Esau". (Jacob cuold not unchoose himself no matter what he did or didn't do).
So what shall we say about this is GOD unfair?
Are we simply clay in the hands of the potter? Can a lepord change his spots?
comments please.

Frenchy

I have, and still do, often wonder about that passage. What was the basis for God's love of one and hatred of the other when neither had done anything to warrant such a reaction?

What are your thoughts on the matter, in fifty words or less?

teejay

For me, it was also a very puzzling scripture over the years. It cannot be harmonized with the idea of a just and loving God. I finally reached the simple conclusion that the scripture wasn't true--hadn't been accurately translated from the original. The alternative to this brought a slew of other problems I cared not to consider.

AIRVIEW1

My thoughts are God does what he wants to do with his creation and doesn't consult with anyone before he does it. That's why WE give him the title ALMIGHTY GOD. He does not conform to our sense of fairness.
At the fall of Adam the whole human race was under God's condemnation.
He devised a plan to save some for his own glory and others he just simply lets them stay under the condemnation of the fall.

Frenchy

:::He does not conform to our sense of fairness.:::
Or us his?

::He devised a plan to save some for his own glory and others he just simply lets them stay under the condemnation of the fall.:::

That's very comforting...It certainly does appeal to one's sense of justice and fairness and fits in nicely with Jesus' portrayal of his Father's undeserved kindness being extended to all.

I bet this evokes a surge of cheer to the depressed ones.

plmkrzy

Pardon me for butt'n in

teejay

"hadn't been accurately translated"

Thats probably right about a lot of
scriptures
Maybe thats where faith comes in.
Lets throw away all the bibles and just believe in God!

AIRVIEW1

Of course this is just my understanding on the matter and I could be completely wrong, but wouldn't it be keeping with his justice if he let the whole human race stay under condemnation at the fall?

As I understand it Abraham was not ac worshipper of Jehovah but an Idolater when Jehovah imputed righteouness to him for no good reason except Jehovah wanted to. So now Abraham's faith would be the vehichcle God would use to impute righteousness to others.

teejay

AIRVIEW1,

It's not very reassuring to think that God is almighty if he decides people's fate long before they are born. He wants to do as he pleases with his creation? Then we aren't free moral agents with absolute control over our own destiny, but only pawns on God's metaphysical chessboard. If that's true, Satan had a point in his confrontation with God over the matter of Job—God sets the rules for others but doesn't play by them himself.

It's mighty fine that God had a plan to save humanity from condemnation but why couldn't he have used Esau? Why dismiss him and choose "the younger" when Esau had not committed a grievous sin? And even if he HAD made some mistake, couldn't God have continued to use the flawed Esau while still working on the salvation of humans, overlooking Esau's mistakes even as he overlooked the mistakes of Noah, Moses, David and a host of others?

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Impossible to "butt in" on a discussion board, plmkrzy. That's what this place is all about, an ideological free for all. Got ideas on a topic? POST 'EM!

I agree with your comment about throwing away all the bibles. As far as I'm concerned, not any of them are anywhere close to being a 100% reliable and trustworthy documentation of either the mind of a fair and loving Creator or the history of the Jews. Too many hands have stirred the pot, each with its own agenda.

Frenchy

It's not very reassuring to think that God is almighty if he decides people's fate long before they are born. He wants to do as he pleases with his creation? Then we aren't free moral agents with absolute control over our own destiny, but only pawns on God's metaphysical chessboard. If that's true, Satan had a point in his confrontation with God over the matter of Job—God sets the rules for others but doesn't play by them himself.

I quite agree. I don't share your view about the Bible being worthless. Difficult to understand? An understatement. Impossible to fully understand? At our present stage of development, Yes. I think the search, however, is more important that the truths being sought inasmuch as those truths require a conditioning that will eventually be achieved by that search which seems to be so full of paradoxes.

AIRVIEW1

Teejay,
Many have said because we are free moral agents...that GOD would never make us serve him. That sounds good until you read that GOD sent a bolt of lighting to Saul and changed his name to Paul completely turning his mission around. If the bolt had not blinded him
would he not still have been killing the dirty rotten christians?

Jacob I loved, Esau I hated!

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