by gravedancer 38 Replies latest jw friends
Sunstarr,
I respect your beliefs. I guess I am one of those who want to know that what I believe has a logical basis.
My premise now is :We were duped the first time - so why invest emotion, time and energy in something you aren't sure of? If you have to rely on something remaining a mystery then how do you know Christianity is correct vs any of the other multitude of belief systems?
grave,
Can't say I don't understand. I would be lying if I said I hadn't had those same thoughts before. Hope you find what you're looking for. Best of luck!
- sunstarr
Gravedancer, thankyou for asking this question more clearly than I could put it. I was trying to ask this question and others, only a couple of days ago. Its been upon my mind for a very long time, would love to discuss with you in person. As clear as daylight what we both say, is true.
Peace & whatknot
Celtic
PS Feel free to mail me at: [email protected]
Absolutely no affiliation to or with the cult awareness network. CAN stands for Community Action Network, a UK 'think tank' in social exclusion issues.
My post started with the heading: Alpha and Omega, knowing the end from the (beginning)
Here is the post, one or two of the replies may take your interest too.
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http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=19743&site=3
Peace and whatknot
Celtic
So is evil possible because of free will or is free will possible because of evil?
Theoretically I'd say the former.
Another question from Genesis...
God spoke of a "seeds" when he pronounced judgements on A&E and the serpent(Satan).
He said the serpent would bruise his seed(Jesus) in the heel, but his seed(Jesus) would bruise him(Satan) in the head.
How did Jah know that? It cant work both ways. Either he "knew" Adam would probably fail and Jesus would probably succeed or not.
What is this selective exercising of his power? A cop out.
And if he did know that Jesus would pass the test, what implications did that have?
That he "knew" Jesus better than Adam (along the lines of the father/daughter illustration above) so could better gauge what Jesus probably would do? How could that be? Did not God make Adam directly?
Also, by making that proclamation did that not take the starch of credibility out of Jesus' time on Earth? He could not fail? Or would not? Where is the free will if his actions after he has died faithful as a man before he even was a man was laid out?
But Adam was no spineless simpleton. Does not the Bible say he was not deceived? Of course being given the fruit and encouragement by a woman God created directly, Adam probably was not using his higher thinking abilities at the time.
If Genesis/God etc is in fact true, we are not much more than pawns in a cosmic chess game. Entertainment of deities. Karma, luck, destiny, call it what you will. But the line between Jehovahs and Satans game and our own responsibility is razor thin.
Side note. At the end of John (I think) John states that if all of Christs deeds were written down the world itself could not hold all the scrolls. If Satan has had such immense success using women and sex to cripple man (not to mention angels) why is there no real record of Jesus being tempted that way?
I have a question on power: Is not using power an indication of not having it?
yrs2long --- unequivocally, No.
Some of the most powerful men I have ever known hated that power and were very careful in how they used it. They realized the damage it could do.
Only in those individuals who have poor heart conditions, being self-centered, etc., use that power for personal glory by acting recklessly. Those who are truly powerful don't need to put on grand displays of it.
LoneWolf
Grave dancer thankyou for posting this subject I have wondered about this for along time. When I was 12 years old I was considering getting baptized in the Seventh aDay Adventist Church, I was studying with the pastor and we were going over baptism questions. I asked him this same question using this little childish story to try to explain what I meant.
" Say you were from a far away country that had no grapes or apples and had seen nor tasted neither. You came to my house and I offered you a choice of apple or grape juice. I had only grape juice in the fridge and regardless of your answer that is what I would pour for you to drink. Would it matter that I offered you a choice since either way you would windup with the same thing. Was it really a choice or did it just seem like it. Either way you would never know the difference"
Now I know that this is not the the most sophisticated argument ever but come on I was twelve. It really bothered me even then despite the fact that I could not express it correctly. Well he said " You just have to have faith". So I got baptized anyway but that's another story.
It has never made sense to me. I was taught that God knew who would be in the book of life before you were even conceived (SDA teaching), Well if that is the case then what is the difference what I choose to do for most of my life. God can't be wrong so in the end he will intervene just so he can be right. Not excactly loving.
just my two cents thanks for listening to me ramble.
