To new Christians on JWN

by brotherdan 284 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • brotherdan
    brotherdan

    Not if you read Revelation, UC. There are specific plans for Israel in the future (if you believe the Bible). As far as the salvation of current Jews and people of other faith, I have no idea. I know that salvation depends on knowing Christ and believing in Him. But I can't judge the millions of other people alive today. Do I think they are wrong in their beliefs, yes. But I'm not going to say that they all deserve to die or have no hope of any sort of after life because of their beliefs. I don't find that important for me.

    I just know for me myself, I could not be happy in having no hope for life after this one. I would be terrified of death. Believing the Bible's promises gives me peace. I could not have that same peace without it. What if I drive home from work today and die in a firey car accident? That's it for me forever? I sure do hope not. If you are comfortable and at peace with this inevitability, then more power to you. But I don't see how I could live that way.

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    Perhaps you can show me threads where an atheist made remarks about their atheism and had some Christian come along and call them stupid and ignorant or even said that they were delusional.

    Well, this thread is a great example where the opening volley was that atheists can't truly be content and are fooling themselves about their contentment without god.

    But, that wasn't my point in the least. my point was that there are at least two sides to every story and when you start with the default position of pointing the finger at someone else as being wrong, you got three fingers pointing back at you.

  • brotherdan
    brotherdan

    Not thinking that someone can be content without a knowledge of God and calling someone stupid and dilusional are 2 very different things NVL. Here's the reactions that I've seen with various people:

    1. When JWs are backed into a corner they change the subject

    2. When Christians are backed into a corner, they turn to the Bible

    3. When Atheists are backed into a corner, they get insulting and angry

    That's just how I see it.

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    I know that salvation depends on knowing Christ and believing in Him. But I can't judge the millions of other people alive today.

    The bible says there will be a resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous, so taking that literally it would seem to not matter much.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt
    I just know for me myself, I could not be happy in having no hope for life after this one. I would be terrified of death.

    See, this I can understand. You've now given me something to work with. Thank you.

    Check this out:

    Sit and examine yourself. Your intelligent, self aware, and probably productive in some fashion. At some level, your creative, maybe with artistic ability, but most definitely imagination. But of these things, its self awareness that is the greatest curse man has. Because with that, comes the knowledge of death. Sooner or later, your going to die. And when it comes down to it, no one wants to. Why? Because no one knows, definitively, what happens after. In steps religion, with the claim of an answer. Religion is the same as the pursuit of easy, great wealth. Most people desire something easier and more valuable than what they have. Con men know this, and exploit people around the world daily. Ever been part of a pyramid scheme? Bet you know someone who has. Would you eat the ground up arm of an albino woman if it would bring you great wealth and power? Probably not. But right now, in Africa, there are people cutting off the limbs of albino people and selling them to witch doctors, who in turn make potions that supposedly will bring great wealth if consumed. Religious voodoo in practice today. In Christianity, it’s the same thing. Believe in a book, and all its magical stories, combined with following the rules written in the book, (and of course pay the required bills on time) and you get a fat juicy reward: a glorious place in the afterlife, even though we cant prove it exists. Religions prey on this daily. it’s a trillion dollar business. Look at Vatican city. How much did all those priceless works of art cost the average person afraid of dying? People want more. Its our nature. And we will do just about anything to get it. The problem with man is, we are men. We are all capable of lying, but we always want to believe others tell the truth, especially if its something we really want to hear. Like, there’s a magical place in heaven for you, for example. What does man want? IMMORTALITY. Where can I get it? Religion.

    You're going to die, just like every other person who was lucky enough to have been born. Once you're dead, it will no more bother you than how you were bothered before you were born.

    With time, this won't terrify you at all. It will probably give more meaning to your current life, the only one you've got.

    Until then, I can admit that creating a useful, hopeful idea of future bliss is an appealing thing -- if you TRULY can convince yourself that it's true.

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    3. When Atheists are backed into a corner, they get insulting and angry

    When you manage to back one into a corner let me know. Telling someone (like you did) that they are fooling themselves when they think they are content because they don't have god is insulting and generally draws out responses like what you and others get, basically forcing you to prove your statements. Since Christians will generally change the subject when they can't prove what they say or wander on about faith or just claim "miracle" or "we can't know god" or ignore posts they can't really honestly answer (I've noticed you have ignored a great many of my questions), it seems that they aren't REALLY looking to convert anyone or have an honest debate.

    You should again note that I have the highest personal respect for you and your faith and like you quite a bit, but it does seem that your default position is to start your conversations with "The bible is right and everyone else is deluded" and proceed from there and THAT leads to some unintentionally insulting comments that ignores the research, struggles and intelligence of many that doubt or have concluded differently than you. or were raised in a different faith. I strongly suspect that had you been raised in a Muslim family you would be defending Allah just as staunchly.

  • brotherdan
    brotherdan

    I don't know LWT...I don't know.

    I know this is a tired argument too, but I'll put aside faith, the bible, everything, and think what if there is no god. He doesn't exist. There is nothing after death. You die, that's it. Kids that die at 5 years old are dead forever. Well then there is nothing that anyone can do about it. That's it. But what if there IS a God and He DOES hold out salvation for those that will just come to Him and believe in Him?

    How can I die with more peace? Knowing that all will fade to black and I do not exist anymore? Or knowing that there is a beautiful place waiting for me because I put faith in Jesus? It's the whole line, "If you're right, I'll die and nothing will happen. But if I'M right then I will die and go to heaven, and you will die and be in big trouble."

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt
    As far as the salvation of current Jews and people of other faith, I have no idea. I know that salvation depends on knowing Christ and believing in Him. But I can't judge the millions of other people alive today. Do I think they are wrong in their beliefs, yes. But I'm not going to say that they all deserve to die or have no hope of any sort of after life because of their beliefs. I don't find that important for me.

    Is the Bible silent on the topic of what happens to those who do not accept Jesus Christ?

    If not, are you "leaving" that part of the Bible behind?

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    How can I die with more peace?

    You seem strangely worried about dying. Way more than you are concerned about living. Get busy living or get busy dying.

  • poopsiecakes
    poopsiecakes

    and you will die and be in big trouble

    This statement makes me very uncomfortable, Brotherdan. What kind of god do you believe in? It's this type of thinking that has made me think the way that I do...that there is no almighty god and that the very belief in him/her/it leads to this type of comment.

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