Beware of the Strawman argument!

by Farkel 97 Replies latest jw friends

  • peacedog
    peacedog

    The point of a straw man argument is to present a phony (and easier to refute) picture of an opposing argument. This fake copy of the opposing argument is then refuted, creating the illusion that the actual opposing argument has been refuted.

    The WT$ frequently resorts to straw man tactics when arguing against the Trinity doctrine. A couple examples:

    If he is one Jehovah, then could he be three gods, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost, as the Trinitarians teach? --WT, 4/1/1970,p.210.

    This is a misrepresentation of the Trinity doctrine, which actually teaches "Jehovah" is ONE God, not "three gods". By misrepresenting the Trinity as being "three gods", the WT$ can then point to verses that teach there is only one God, and create the illusion that they have debunked the Trinity doctrine.

    At Zechariah 11:12,13 (AS) Jehovah speaks of "thirty pieces of silver" as "the goodly price that I [Jehovah] was prized at by them." At Matthew 27:9,10 the prophecy is applied to the price Judas received for betraying Jesus. Does this indicate thatJehovah and Jesus are the same person, as taught by trinitarians? --WT, 4/1/1959,p.224.

    Again, a misrepresentation of the actual doctrine. The Trinity doctrine does not hold "Jehovah" and Jesus to be the same person. After erecting their straw man, the WT$ will point to verses that contradict their straw man trinity doctrine, thereby creating the illusion that they've refuted the actual doctrine.

  • chickpea
    chickpea

    bluesbrother>>> sure seems like poisoning the well

    trying to discredit what a person might later claim by presenting unfavorable information (be it true or false) about the person.

  • tec
    tec

    So the... would you inject alcohol directly into your veins if your doctor told you to abstain from alcohol/ vs. blood transfusion... is a strawman argument.

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    BluesBrother,

    :9 During Jehovah’s day, those who have

    been molded by the world and its evil spirit

    will display their true nature, even slaughtering
    one another. In fact, it could well be
    that the numerous forms of violent entertainment
    popular today are conditioning
    the minds of many for the time when
    each man’s hand “will actually come up
    against the hand of his companion.” (Zech.
    14:13)

    It's not really any argument at all. An argument must have at least two assertions and a conclusion which much inevitably follow if the assertions are assumed to be true.

    All of that paragraph is just musings, or ramblings.

    Farkel

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep
    Your argument changed the original argument into a similiar argument and refuted the similar arguement.

    The only times I have ever seen my father stumped is when his potential victims didn't get sucked in by the subtle changes of subject.

    I have have noticed that every time I make a statement to any member of any cult, they re-phrase the question before they answer it.

    Never, ever, let them get away with it. I know you know that Farkel, but there are a lot of us ex's that haven't worked that out yet, and we have to get that message into their heads somehow.

    Cheers

    Chris

  • debator
    debator

    Be aware.

    You may well be hung by your own pertard on this one. People on here have specific topics they use against witnesses as strawmen and try to draw every discussion to reflect them.

    Me --- If you test what the Witnesses teach against the bible they are shown to be more accurate than any other Christian faith atm.

    Anti-witness --- No they are not, they are brainwashed!.

    Me --- Ehh? I'm not talking about brainwashing. I'm talking about checking what witnesses specifically teach against the Bible itself.

    Anti-witness -- witnesses cannot be accurate because they are a cult and all cults are innacurate!

    Me -- Huh! what has that got to do with testing against what the Bible teaches?

    Anti-witness --- Your just brainwashed and they get dates wrong all the time.

    Me -- Again I'm not talking about brainwashing or chronologically drawn prophecy which we are told biblically to check fulfillment as it happens in world around us. Can we please get back to the topic at hand please about checking what the witnesses teach against the bible?

    Anti-witness --- Rutherford and Russell were just crazy men who you follow!

    Me --- I'm sorry but what does that have to do with what witnesses preach?

    Anti-witness - Also my Mum's uncle's brother saw all the elder's sons get away with having sex while he just got df'd for watching an 18 Movie.

    Me --- Sigh!!! Do you actually know any Bible doctrines that Jehovah's witnesses preach, to talk about?

    Anyi-witness -- You just follow a printing press company instead of the Bible.

    Me --- Look! all I am saying is check what the witnesses actually Teach against the Bible have you any thoughts on this?

    Anti-witnesses --- ehhh!! Did I mention you were brainwashed? thats number 2 on my list of what I was told to say to witnesses?

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Hi Debator,

    I am sure that there is a name for the wishy washy excuse for an attack on ex-jws I see above, but really .... give us a go, mate. Give us something to get our teeth into.

    My Dad has been trying to convince me that WT killer God is about to kill sinners like me for 70 years and poor old Jebooboo hasn't bothered to drag his sorry arse out of bed and kill me so that Dad can move in to my fancy house with all the extras. If he had it his way way, I would be living in a tin shed preaching to people living better than me in grass huts.

  • Quillsky
    Quillsky

    Debator, you reason well; you'll be out soon.

  • inbetween
    inbetween

    for debator:

    me (conscious class)´: the WTS teaches XYZ, while the bible says here ABC

    (fanatic) witness: but here another scripture says XYZ

    me: but the context of this scripture gives a different idea

    witness: maybe, however, the FDS is Gods chosen channel, they know what is right

    me: ok, but can they overstep scriptures ?

    witness: no, all they teach is according to scripture

    me: ok, so why is this scripture I showed you, not in line with WTS teaching ?

    witness: you sound like an apostate, where did you get your idea ?

    me: does it matter ? I just want to know, why WTS contradicts this scriptures

    witness: we must never question Gods channel...

    me: how to we know its Gods channel ?

    witness: what ? of course the WTS is Gods channel, they have been teaching us the truth

    me: what is truth ?

    witness: hmm, everything in line with Gods word

    me: okay, so why is then claim XYZ not in line with Gods word?

    witness: the FDS warns us about independent thinking, trust them, not apostate ideas, or God will destroy you in A., period...I´m telling on you now...

  • Quillsky
    Quillsky
    you sound like an apostate

    Hah hah yes!! The period at the end of every debate with a current Witness.

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