Beware of the Strawman argument!

by Farkel 97 Replies latest jw friends

debator

Hi Carvin
We use the written word to support the truth we have found in God's word the bible but everything we believe has to be backed up by bible command, scripture or established and applied bible principles.
You are talking like using the written word is wrong? huh!!! Jehovah established it's usage by inspiring the Bible, using printed words as a way to teach us himself and the Bible writers clearly sent letters that didn't make it into the Bible as part of their everyday functions among the congregations.
Colossians 4:16
After this letter has been read to you, see that it is also read in the church of the Laodiceans and that you in turn read the letter from Laodicea.
2 Corinthians 10:11
Such people should realize that what we are in our letters when we are absent, we will be in our actions when we are present.
There is no biblical precedent to assume we are not allowed to write encouragment to each other. The important things is we recognise the only inspired writing is the Bible. We have never claimed inspiration for the written tools we use that help explain the bible.
Explaining the Bible is what we are supposed to do as God's people.
Acts 8:30-31 (New International Version)

30 Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked.
31 "How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
Why is much of what you bring up against witnesses just different ways of actually stopping them doing things well established in the bible?
Btw Using the word "Cult" is just a strawman used as a defamatory word to prevoke a negative response. Nowadays people can just cold read any structured group you like into it. In early times they used the word "sect" like this and Paul openly recognised but just shrugged the negative connotation off.
Acts 24:14
However, I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets,
Please recognise the well-used strawmans from this site and the negative response they try to provoke without proof simply just assuming wrongdoing.
peacedog

Reniaa the debator:
The word "channel" was simply used to express the opinion that we are the only people at this time following Jehovah on earth and that is literally the truth.
Wrong on both counts.
The WT$ doesn't claim to be "God's channel of followers" do they? Not only is that NOT the Society's claim, but it doesn't even make sense as a concept...
The WT$ claims to be "God's channel OF COMMUNICATION".
Now according to your previous statement, this claim is "not a teaching you actually check against the Bible". I happen to agree with you in that the WT$'s claim to be "God's channel OF COMMUNICATION" is wholly unscriptural and so obviously not something you could "check against the Bible".
My question to you was (and is), what *is* the WT$'s claim to be "God's channel OF COMMUNICATION" based on, since we agree it's not based on scripture?
Is it not simply an arbitrary claim made by the leaders of the WT cult based on nothing that is not subjective?
isaacaustin

Reniaa/Debator: Hi Carvin
We use the written word to support the truth we have found in God's word the bible but everything we believe has to be backed up by bible command, scripture or established and applied bible principles.
My reply: Blah blah blah baseless assertion...
R/D said: You are talking like using the written word is wrong? huh!!! Jehovah established it's usage by inspiring the Bible, using printed word as a way to teach us himself and the Bible writers clearly sent letters that didn't make it into the Bible as part of their everyday functions among the congregations.
Colossians 4:16
After this letter has been read to you, see that it is also read in the church of the Laodiceans and that you in turn read the letter from Laodicea.
2 Corinthians 10:11
Such people should realize that what we are in our letters when we are absent, we will be in our actions when we are present.
There is no biblical precedent to assume we are not allowed to write encouragment to each other. The important things is we recognise the only inspired writing is the Bible. We have never claimed inspiration for the written tools we use that help explain the bible.
My reply: Yet in action the Wt elevates itself as higher than the bible itself. They have stated that without them one could not understand the bible, and most recently that they are writings that have become a part of God's word.
Reni-bator: Explaining the Bible is what we are supposed to do as God's people.
My reply: Agreed. But the JWs use man's interpretation as their bible.
Renia/debator:
Acts 8:30-31 (New International Version)

30 Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked.
31 "How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
Why is much of what you bring up against witnesses just different ways of actually stopping them doing things well established in the bible?
My reply:
Why stop there? The account goes on to say that the eunuch NEVER saw Phillip again. JWs are taught that they need the org, who has taught them the 'truth'.
Renia/Debator said: Btw Using the word "Cult" is just a strawman used as a defamatory word to prevoke a negative response. Nowadays people can just cold read any structured group you like into it. In early times they used the word "sect" like this and Paul openly recognised but just shrugged the negative connotation off.
My reply: Its an accurate summary of the org, all things considered.
Renia/Debator: Acts 24:14
However, I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets,
Recognise the well used strawmans from this site and the negative response they try to provoke without proof assuming wrongdoing.
My reply: Ecept Acts 24 is speaking of Christianity, wrongly considered a sect. We are speaking of a cult, wrongly calling itself the only true Christian religion.
peacedog

Reniaa/debator:
I noticed you did not answer carvin's question:
"Please be honest do you truely your whole heart, mind, soul, and spirit believe that the trumpet blasts in Revelation are refering to speaches given by the WT in an Ohio convention?"
Also, you said: "Btw Using the word "Cult" is just a strawman used as a defamatory word to prevoke a negative response"
But is it a "straw man" and/or defamatory when its used in reference to an actual cult?
isaacaustin

LOL Some things never change Reniaa. You getting you butt kicked on exJW forums trying to defend the indefensible is one of them. When you left as Reniaa you said you were returning to the org and giving up this site. What happened?
debator

Peacedog
My name is debator if you want me to contunue replying to you please use it! I have done the curtesy of using your forum name and find it weird that people on here need to lump previous posters (in favour of witnesses) together as if they are all one person. I've seen them do it to someone called alice whom I think they have also accused of being me.
Your opinion of what you think witnesses mean by "God's channel" is only proof of your opinion. We have never claimed to be inspired so I cannot see your bases for this. By using God's word the Bible we are communicating with Jehovah and he with us! especially if he allows us to see such bible truths that anyone can test us by. If we are the only people atm that are doing what the Bible actually says then we are literally the only people communicating with Jehovah. Jews claimed to be God's only people that he communicated with, early Christians also claimed it. There is no wrongdoing in having confidence in your faith?
It's as simple as that. No hidden agenda, no terrible secret. Sometimes I think I've fallen into a Dan Brown novel on this site were people are trying to find the most sinister and complicated intentions in the most innocuous things.
At this time of fractured Christendom, The truth simply cannot be in all of them! there can be only one truth! IMO it is all with the witnessses who have humbly searched for it in God's word not traditional opinions of men that are not found in the bible.
Carvins words on a specific prophecy is just another strawman. Prophecy is a subjective part of the Bible that we are supposed to look outside of the bible for fulfilment of it and so is in a continual state of flux until well-established and even then it may need refinement as understanding become clearer. And since prophecy is only 100% after fulfilment, I am happy to run with whatever their current understanding of that prophetic scripture is. Care to offer an alternative explanation for that prophecy from your religion?
Hi isaac
It is a testable assertion! All Christian religions say their teachings are from the Bible but proof comes from testing them with the Bible. I did personally and found witnesses to have the most accurate bible understanding. You disagree with me and that is your perogative.
1 John 4:1
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God,
Isaac the Early Christians themselves believed only they could explain and understand the bible. Were they arrogant too? They felt only they had been blessed to have revealed understanding of God's word.
Matthew 13:10-11 (New International Version)

10 The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"
11 He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

This is not a wrongdoing Isaac.
The eunuch never saw philip again thats all it is saying. Was philip the only christian at that time? We have the established Bible record that congregations where unified by the letters thats wrere swapped and copied between them and they sent out men etc they gathered together for encouragement with overseers and apostles shepherding them. To teach and preach. that an established fact on how the Christian congregation functioned.
2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
Does it come any more plain speaking than that?
How can they hold to teachings yet believe something different? your just creating an oxymoron.
Isaac I use your name, please have the curtesy to use my name debator!
peacedog

My name is debator if you want me to contunue replying to you please use it!
I see. How about as soon as you tell me that you are not the person who previously posted here with the forum name "reniaa" I will stop referring to you as "reniaa".
Your opinion of what you think witnesses mean by "God's channel" is only proof of your opinion.
You're stupid or you're a liar. Probably both. I wasn't telling you what I "think". What I "think" doesn't play into it at all. The WT$ has claimed (and claims still) to be "God's channel OF COMMUNICATION". This is not my OPINION.
The WT$ has never claimed to be "inspired"? I couldn't care less if they've used the word "inspired" in reference to themself. They claim to be God's channel OF COMMUNICATION. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. At least it is for those who don't suffer with the compulsion to defend our cult masters at all costs...............
peacedog

Sometimes I think I've fallen into a Dan Brown novel on this site were people are trying to find the most sinister and complicated intentions in the most innocuous things.
And sometimes I think I've fallen into the Twilight Zone where people run around saying that a group of PROVEN LIARS has "the truth" and these LIARS are "God's Organization" and His "Channel of Communication"...
Newsflash for reniaa/debator and all the rest of your ilk: Since the WT$ is a LIAR ORGANIZATION, they clearly do not have "the truth" (duh!) nor can they be GOD'S ORGANIZATION or His CHANNEL OF COMMUNICATION.
Deal with it.
moshe

Look for the telltale indicators that a straw man trick is on the way are the introductory words "there are those who say" or "some say."
Of course the WT and politicians never identify just who "those" or "some" people are.
moshe

Fallacious advertising sells beer, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9GYocBqGyA&feature=related

Beware of the Strawman argument!

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