by brotherdan 56 Replies latest watchtower bible
LOL brother Dan: "...a genetic mutation will occur causing these genes to develop protein to supplement all the animals dietary needs?"
That has to be a heck of a lightning speed mutation to happen before the animal starves to death...no wonder the "Slave" is demanding that JWs just accept the propaganda without thinking..
There will likely be a reconditioning of the biologic and genetic makeup of humans and animals. There are broken genes in humans and animals that could contribute to nutrition if they were functional.
Isn't that evolution?? If Jehovah had wanted them to be herbivores, why didn't he make them that way to begin with? Did they start out that way and then de-evolve into carnivores and once the new system is here change back? How far done the food chain will this extend? To bacteria? To flys? Where is the line and why is it there? Without decomposition, the earth will quickly turn into a smelly mess. Unless the animals will also live forever?
Why did the animals start turning on each other after the Fall? What did they do wrong? They didn't sin.
I could never reconcile this teaching with the teaching that animals are not able to sin because they can't reason. Original sin was willful which was something the animals couldn't do.
There will likely be a reconditioning of the biologic and genetic makeup of humans and animals. There are broken genes in humans and animals that could contribute to nutrition if they were functional.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudogene
Pseudogenes are dysfunctional relatives of known genes that have lost their protein-coding ability or are otherwise no longer expressed in the cell. Although some do not have introns or promoters (these pseudogenes are copied from mRNA and incorporated into the chromosome and are called processed pseudogenes), most have some gene-like features (such as promoters, CpG islands, and splice sites), they are nonetheless considered nonfunctional, due to their lack of protein-coding ability resulting from various genetic disablements (stop codons, frameshifts, or a lack of transcription) or their inability to encode RNA (such as with rRNA pseudogenes). Thus the term, coined in 1977 by Jacq, et al., is composed of the prefix pseudo, which means false, and the root gene, which is the central unit of molecular genetics.
Cool. Reverse evolution...
LOL... Doubting Bro... You beat me by milliseconds...
It order to gain access to the proteins within the cell, an herbivore must rupture the cell membrane. In plant material the cell membrane is a rigid structure reinforced by cellulose. That requires both chemical and mechanical breakdown.
It's not enough to speculate about some imaginary lost metabolic function in carnivores when they are completely unable to effect the mechanical breakdown.
Here is their completely ridiculous argument to the conditions in Eden where "no animals were killers". I don't know how they factor in dinosaurs or others....but here's the explanation from the Oct 82 Awake Pgs 9-13 (Thanks to TD for the ref) :
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When All Nature Will Be in Harmony
DESPITE the abundant evidence showing that the design in nature requires an intelligent Designer, many persons do not believe that God exists. They feel that a loving Creator would not have designed the violence, killing and wickedness so prevalent on earth.
However, what if God did NOT design the violence and killing? What if he is NOT responsible for the gross wickedness among humans? Instead, what if he detests these things and promises that he will absolutely put them to an end in his own due time?
Who Is Responsible?
A company may manufacture a knife for cutting vegetables. If someone uses this knife to kill another person, who is responsible? Is the manufacturer of the knife condemned? No, the one who misused the knife is guilty.
The human hand is used wonderfully for ever so many constructive tasks. It builds houses, plants trees, picks up needles, tenderly holds babies. But if a man uses his hands to strangle another person, could we charge that the hand was improperly designed? No, it is not the designer who is to blame but the owner.
If a builder constructs a beautiful home and gives it to tenants who vandalize it, who is at fault? Would you charge the builder with the crime? No, you would hold the vandalizers responsible for the wrong. And surely you would not deny that the builder existed just because the tenants were delinquent.
It is contrary to reason and to justice to condemn the innocent. It is contrary to reason to condemn body parts or organs that God designed for a good purpose if they are used differently at present.
In the Bible we have a clear record of God’s purpose for human and animal life on earth, and why they are in chaos today. Further, that record tells us how all nature will soon come into complete peace and harmony.
Not Designed That Way
Did the human and animal creations always behave the way they do now? Have they always hurt and maimed and killed? Were they designed to do that?
The answer to these questions is: NO, not at all!
Indeed, is God even the ruler of this present system of things? Is he guiding the nations in their dealings with one another? Again, the answer to these questions is: NO, not at all!
Well, then, just how was it long ago? Why are things the way they are now? Who, indeed, does rule this world? And just how will God bring all nature into complete peace and harmony?
The Way It Was
When God created humans and animals to live on this earth, he did not purpose for them to be killers. They were created to have peaceful relations with one another. Thus conditions were altogether different from what they are today. The record tells us that “God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good.”—Genesis 1:31.
The human creation was to have in loving subjection “the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.” (Verse 28) None of the animals in the garden of Eden were killers. They were not a threat to man, nor was man a threat to any animal.
God’s Word clearly says regarding the first humans: “I have given to you all vegetation bearing seed which is on the surface of the whole earth and every tree on which there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed. To you let it serve as food.” (Genesis 1:29) Hence, man did not use animals for food.
What was the food of the animals? The inspired record states: “To every wild beast of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving upon the earth in which there is life as a soul I have given all green vegetation for food.” Or, as Today’s English Version of the Bible puts it: “For all the wild animals and for all the birds I have provided grass and leafy plants for food.”—Genesis 1:30.
So when God designed humans, he put them in a peaceful paradise called Eden. He made them to be at peace with the animals, with no violence or killing for food among animals or man. And humans were to keep it that way by caring for themselves, the animals and the garden paradise that they and their offspring would spread to encompass eventually the entire earth.—Genesis 1:27, 28.
The Key
How could humans keep this peaceful paradise and live forever on earth, as was their prospect? By obeying God’s laws. That was the key. Why was that so important? Because God did not design humans to be independent of their Maker and still be successful. The Bible clearly says: “To earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.”—Jeremiah 10:23.
Mankind’s problems began when our first parents misused their free moral agency. They were seduced by a rebellious spirit creature to believe that they could determine right and wrong without God’s help. They chose independence from God. But that was not the Designer’s fault. “Perfect is his activity, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; righteous and upright is he,” the Bible says. The responsibility for the consequences of rebellion lies with the rebels: “They have acted ruinously on their own part; they are not his children, the defect is their own.”—Deuteronomy 32:4, 5; Genesis 2:15–3:24.
Since humans wanted independence, God gave it to them. However, no longer would he sustain them in perfection. So imperfection and death came into being. (Romans 5:12) And God permitted this—for a period of time—so that all could see what the course of independence would cost mankind, the animals and the earth. For these thousands of years God has allowed this so that once and for all time the sad consequences of rebellion would be manifest.
Thus, independence from God and his laws is what turned man into the way of imperfection, violence and death. Also, as man turned toward lawlessness, the earthly creation, too, became chaotic. Man lost his loving dominion over the animals. Since humans could not control themselves peacefully, it is no surprise that the animals are in the same condition.
The animals—who had a vegetarian diet in Eden, as did humans—began to live off one another, some even eating humans when possible. (Genesis 1:30) And, as a concession for his survival, man was authorized to eat animal flesh for food after the Flood.—Genesis 9:2-4.
Not Designed to Kill
Yet, what about the features of animals and humans that are used for maiming and killing? Since God created a vast variety of different features, many of them could be adapted to the new situation to help in survival.
For instance, most animals would continue to eat vegetation, as is the case down to this day. An example is the powerful gorilla, with its awesome fangs—fangs still used to rip and consume heavy vegetation. But others adapted themselves to eating flesh. Yet predators make up only a very small percent of the animals.
Man, too, has adapted. In his imperfection and waywardness, he often uses his mind and hands to maim and kill. He has even cannibalized other humans for food. And his teeth can be adapted to eating meat, though that was not included in his diet in Eden.
But what of the “balance of nature”? If there was no killing, how would this be maintained? For one thing, it was man who was to live forever on earth. That promise was not given to animals. They would die when their life span was completed.
Also, many animals have built-in mechanisms that reduce their fertility when overcrowding occurs. And this is without God’s direct intercession now. Surely, when God’s time comes for all the earth to be brought back into that peaceful Edenic condition, it will be no great thing for the Grand Designer of animals and humans to control their numbers without violence.
An example of how God can subdue the violence in animals was the peace that existed among beasts and humans for about a year in Noah’s ark.
Keep in mind that what exists today is not what it was like in the paradise of Eden. That environment was vastly different. Many foods were likely different. Probably the animals with hardier teeth had rougher food. Their teeth were designed for that.
Certainly there are questions that cannot now be answered about the exact conditions in Eden. But this does not argue that there was no Designer.
" What about mice and rats? If cats, birds of prey and other animals won't be able to hunt rodents how will that population be controled?"
Looks like the WTS version of the new system gonna have a lot of problems,
especially with all those decayin' bodies layin' around stinkin' for god only knows
how long ,without the help of the Buzzards to dispose of them. In the new system
the Buzzards gonna be eatin' apples.
Is it even possible for a whale to eat 5500 pounds of seaweed? What if he accidentally swallows a sardine? What if I accidentally swallow a fly in the New System™ while I'm talking? Would I die for murder?
For instance, most animals would continue to eat vegetation, as is the case down to this day. An example is the powerful gorilla, with its awesome fangs—fangs still used to rip and consume heavy vegetation.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/141006/1/JW-Science-Quote-Of-The-Day-8-28
i was actually going to comment on that very thing TD. its not just digestive. The very TEETH of these animals are not designed to process the vegetable matter. and might I point out Alice, that the OP was not about HUMANS, who are perfectly capable of living as vegetarians, but animals. Your reading comprehension is lacking a bit. Could you also, Alice, address the creature that have been mentioned, such as sharks, crocodiles and snakes and what they may eat? (lol'd at the shark eating algae BTW)
However the concept that predatory animals will pose no threat to humans is at least understandable.
also a few quotes for those who may be interested:
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ip-1chap.13p.164par.13SalvationandRejoicingUndertheMessiah’sReign***
The knowledge of Jehovah will not change animals, but it will affect people
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ip-1chap.13pp.164-165par.15SalvationandRejoicingUndertheMessiah’sReign
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15
In that restored Paradise, will Isaiah’s prophecy have a further, perhaps more literal, fulfillment? It seems reasonable to think so. The prophecy gives to all who will live under the Messiah’s rule the same assurance that it gave to the returning Israelites; they and their children will not feel threatened by harm from any source—human or animal. Under the Messiah’s Kingdom rule, all earth’s inhabitants will enjoy peaceful conditions like those that Adam and Eve enjoyed in Eden. Of course, the Scriptures do not reveal every detail of what life was like in Eden—or of what it will be like in Paradise. We can be confident, though, that under the wise and loving rule of the King Jesus Christ, everything will be just as it should be.
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ip-2chap.26pp.388-389pars.34-35“BeJoyfulForeverinWhatIAmCreating”
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34
Jehovah’s words are finding a thrilling fulfillment among true worshipers today. Since 1919, God has blessed the spiritual land of his people, transforming it into a spiritual paradise. Those coming into this spiritual paradise make remarkable changes in their lives. (Ephesians 4:22-24) With the help of God’s spirit, individuals who at one time had beastlike personalities—who perhaps exploited or otherwise victimized their fellowman—make progress in taming undesirable traits. As a result, they enjoy peace and unity of worship with fellow believers. The blessings now enjoyed by Jehovah’s people in their spiritual paradise will extend into the physical Paradise, where the peace prevailing among humans will be matched by peace with the animals. We can be sure that in God’s due time, his original commission to mankind will be properly carried out: “Subdue [the earth], and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.”—Genesis 1:28.
35
How grateful we are for Jehovah’s promise to create “new heavens and a new earth”! That promise had a fulfillment in 537 B.C.E. and is having a further fulfillment today. These two fulfillments point the way to a glorious future for obedient mankind. Jehovah has kindly given us, through Isaiah’s prophecy, a glimpse of what he has in store for those who love him. Truly, we have every reason to heed Jehovah’s words: “Be joyful forever in what I am creating”!—Isaiah
