by Wrong Way 126 Replies latest jw friends
BD: Cheeze, what critical thinking, to me, is this. I am taught all sides of an issue. I am taught the valid and invalid points on each issue with all honesty. I am presented with all sides and allowed to come to a conclusion on my own.
SBC: BD, I take it you didn't watch the YouTube.
BD: I didn't. But I know what critical thinking REALLY is.
The essence of your reply would seem to indicate otherwise. (Edited to soften my dogmatic approach.)
And that is precisely why we need critical thinking emphasized in the school system.
@jam
Probably the worst example of religiously sanctioned evil that I've come across is a cult that now goes by the name. They once taught child sex abuse as an acceptable, even ideal, child rearing practice. Prior to the rise of the AIDS virus, this cult also had a worldwide ministry which persuaded female members to act as prostitutes to spread the love of Jesus and become "fishers of men" (i.e. recruit more into the cult)
It was shocking to find out that even when the national Governments were made aware of these abhorrent practices it was enough for the group to claim that they did not practice them anymore. This group continues to freely operate all over the world. If you go to their website it really comes across just as innocent as the Watchtower's. It is all bright smiling faces and family values.
It is crazy that even in the face of such extreme examples of religious abuse the Governments are slow to step in and take action.
Cheeze - sent you a PM
Jam - there are always going to be crazy wacko religions - often much nuttier than JWs (cough*Islam*cough). Child protective laws do spill over into the blood/medical field in the US - and even more so in other countries. Of course there is still huge room for improvement and I could go on and on about that - I cannot emphasize enough how stupid the blood policy is, extreme, and dangerous. Democratic governments can and do have the ability to go after specific dangerous activities practiced in religions. But with outright bans, a government can find itself moving down the path to all out repression of freedoms. I believe China still has a law on its books for possession of a Bible- death penalty. (don't think it's enforced anymore though). Of course China's not really democratic - but neither is Russia - not really anyway.
What it comes down to though is what jwfacts said - banning any religion sets a dangerous precedent. Some want to be Russia's cheerleader in this process. For all the wrong beliefs that JWs hold to and teach, I still believe in the right to hold to those beliefs - even if they're cult-like in their indoctrination methods.
Slippery slope. I could do anything "in the name of religion", couldn't I? Does that make it acceptable or defensible?
The WT$ is a dangerous cult first and foremost; it is a religion second. They are deserving of being placed under ban on account of the former, not the latter.
PD: One thing I noticed that a lot are better at than me - is taking something out of context. Go back and read my entire post. Governments should certainly go after dangerous issues to protect their citizens from dangerous practices. Why are some people still so stuck in the WT's dogmaticsm in - that they still can't get past that "all or nothing", "us or them" mentality - have they not learned anything?
I'm sure Mao had a good argument for banning the Bible in China - but even that ban has been mostly done away with. It would be easy for many to say the bible gets people to do this or that - let's just ban it. Some apparantly want countries to go back to this.
Really, I still can't get past how there are actually people here that like having old men (govt) decide what you can and can't believe. I must be taking crazy pills - because I thought a forum like this would bring in people that like freedom.
Really, I still can't get past how there are actually people here that like having old men (govt) decide what you can and can't believe.
You shouldn't paint with such broad strokes. I doubt people "like having old men (govt) decide what [they] can and can't believe."
I simply happen to agree with the govt in this case. The WT$ is flat out a dangerous cult - dangerous to the point of requiring the death of their members, including children.
Because I agree with the govt stance in regard the WT$, does that require me to like or want the government deciding what I can and can't do in all instances?
Fair enough. I see a few supporters of: Banning religion by a supposed democratic government. Maybe I see the broad strokes because of my study of history. How is this not controlling thoughts and speech - not what people do - but what people believe and their right to assemble and worship? I paint the picture with what some may call broad strokes - but that's because I like to see the whole picture. I and others have pointed a much more just direction that Russia could go. Many democratic countries protect relgions adherent's from dangerous practices by regulating the practice - not banning religion. So here are the two things that supporting this means - big picture yes - but it is still in the picture whether one sees it or chooses to ignore it:
1) Now I don't like the religion either. But it seems obvious to me, nobody here has proven otherwise, that this will lead to a lot of individuals - some I know and like personally - getting mistreated, physically abused, losing their jobs, prison, labor camps, and who knows what else. That in itself will literally hurt more JWs than any of the religion's beliefs will hurt its constituents.
2) Banning one entire religous belief system will set the stage to ban many other ways of thinking - Any religion Russia wants to ban will be the start, then books, then sexual orientation. It will lead down this path.
I'll bet Terry Jones would know what to do. Who's up for a conference call?
One final thought - If you're going to ban a religion based on a claim that its for the safety of your country's citizens, start with one that affects a lot more people than the JWs. Banning Islam would save a lot more people from dangerous teachings than banning the JWs. Anyway this thread has been a good reminder of a lot things for me. Despite our differences in opinion on freedom of religion, I wish you all well in your journey to discover freedom of thought, beyond control of any religion or government. For those of you in Russia, current JWs, former JWs, or anyone with a belief the government doesn't like - well, sucks to be you...just kidding. I hope you do what you can to fight for the freedom your government is trying to take away.
