BREAKING NEWS on www.jw-media.org

by Wrong Way 126 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  undercover

  ...they outwardly say that all governments, including the Russian governement, are directed by Satan and will be destroyed. They are viewing JW teaching as terrorism.

  And if JWs were taught to arm themselves and to be prepared to overthrow the government or create anarchy, then it's no longer a religious issue, it's a political one. It becomes a terrorist organization bent on disrupting the ruling government.

  But the JWs don't do that. Yes, they claim that ALL governments are under Satan's influence and that God is going to end their reign but they also make it clear that it is God's battle, not theirs.

  And if the Russian government is that scared of what a small group of crazy cultists think, they're in deeper shit than anyone realized.

  I think what donuthole said was worthy of consideration. If the Russian government is treating this as a way to protect all citizens from being harrassed, bullied or coerced into certain behavior or control because of religious influence, then there may be some merit....if this type ban is considered for any and all religions that cross that line. What about Mormons? The Russian Orthodox church? Catholics? It's a slippery slope to ban one under a pretense of protecting the people yet not everyone is held to the same set of standards.

  That's why I think it's wrong to ban religion. It becomes a political tool to control people... and it usually backfires anyway. Tell people they can't do this or that, and they'll goddamn find a way to do it anyway.
• 

  PSacramento

  Here is the thing though, IF the issue is truly that they are the only group NOT following clearly established rules by the elected government of the people, then they are NOT being persecuted but being rebellious aganst the authorities and that goes against teachings of Jesus and Paul.

  To say you are being persecuted because you break the law means that all crimimals are also persecuted.
• 

  mamalove

  I think this news just excites them. Closer to the "end" ya know? I was always a little happy to think about getting banned. It meant no more service, or it would make it so hard, we probably wouldn't have to do much of it.

  But in all seriousness, I am not well read on the Russia subject. It makes me wonder though, what is their motivation? Is it because they see the WTBTS as dangerous and they are doing this as a preventative measure to protect people in their eyes? Or is this governmental sanctions based on deep rooted communistic thinking?
• 

  PSacramento

  Of course if the Russians REALLY want them to stop all they have to do is revoke their status as a "tax free religion" and make them pay taxes on their income (donations) and have to file tax resturns on their investments and holdings, unless they follow the rules that allwos them to be recognised as a religion.

  :)
• 

  ziddina

  BrotherDan:

  "I'm all for banning the WT. But I hate that the abuse goes on in Russia. It's not just a hatred of the teachings, but it tends to spill over into a hatred of the individuals. That's what scares me about Russia. We all should be guaranteed basic human rights. However, I don't know where to stand on the issue. If they don't ban it then the WT is free to mislead thousands of people. If they do ban it, then the WT will encourage everyone to go underground and continue in the organization, which in turn will lead them to physical abuse from others. ..."

  StraightShooter:

  "If Russia succeeds, then they will go after other religions, such as the Baptists. But if Russian fails, then the WTS will continue to spread their lies. ..."

  DonutHole:

  "And that is exactly the premise of the Russian government. The issue isn't one's right to freely practice their religion. The Russian constitution guarantees that but it is with the caveat that in your practice of religion you cannot interfere with the rights others to freely practice their own religion. ..."

  Very interesting, DonutHole!!!

  I think that the Russian Government should set a precedent, and TAX THE HELL out of any and all churches operating within their borders. THAT way, they'd set a precedent - and improve their fiscal position - while limiting the expansion of religions that have been getting a 'free ride' from almost all other governments on the planet...

  If the Russians went a bit farther, and FINED any and all religions for doing - as DonutHole mentioned - anything that could be considered "interference" with the rights of others to freely practice their own religions - say, $100,000 American per offense/issue - that might put a crimp in the behavior of the Watchtower Society - and any other rabidly fanatical religious group...

  Charge $1,000,000 for every death that occurs as a result of "religious" beliefs, and the Russian Government could become VERY rich, just off of the Watchtower Society alone...

  Hit 'em where it hurts - in the MONEY BAGS!!!!

  Zid
• 

  Finally-Free

  So much JW literature is devoted to bashing other religions, governments, science, education, lifestyles, etc. Maybe the "persecution" would stop if they toned down their incessant condemnations.

  Or are they, in fact, seeking the right to bash everyone without consequence? If that's the case then I applaud any attempts to ban them.

  W
• 

  steve2

  Russians, on the whole, have some good common sense and ethics. Smart move.

  Given Russia's poor record on human rights, I'd say it is indeed a smart move - but it is spectacularly lacking in "good common sense and ethics".

  God knows the Russian state church was trampled upon during the Communist era - but since then it has re-gained ascendancy and pressured the state to clamp down on the unstoppable outbreak of irritating American missionary groups, including JWs.

  It's one thing to give the organization and its governing body a boot up the proverbial -which it more than deserves; but it's quite another to do so to the local rank and file - who often end up suffering whilst the filthy Brooklyn boys get to sound even more unbearably self-righteous and persecuted.
• 

  SweetBabyCheezits

  Putting my vote in for EDUCATION, like Billy said, but perhaps not as WT-specific. If all children were required by law to complete critical thinking skills courses throughout their schooling, they would be equipped to identify and filter out all religious and cultural tradition baloney. Allow them to believe as they like but give them the tools to eliminate bias and presupposition from judgment (or as much as possible).

  That, in my opinion, would be a reasonably diplomatic means to cut the head off the snake.
• 

  just n from bethel

  I'm with UC on this. I really question the thinking abilities of anyone that wants to ban a religion outright. Certainly there are harmful activities that JWs practice such as refusing blood for their children - and such activities could indeed be rendered unlawful as they are already in many countries.

  I was a pretty typical JW - I never had a bad childhood incident with anything related to the religion. I did everything I was supposed to. I never got in any serious trouble. Most importantly I really believed, and I studied heavily to reinforce my beliefs. I was very big into personal study, and mainly WT publications. I certainly never went online to anything that even resembled an ex-JW website. Even after my first concerns with Wt teachings arose, when I went online and came accross any negative comments on news items of JWs, I dismissed them and went on.

  When a JW, even one with concerns like I had, sees comments supporting bans, the only effect it has on a JW is to reinforce the idea that such statements come from extremely uneducated individuals.

  My point is this: the whole "Ban the JWs" "Go Russia - Bring back Communism" talk, makes lurkers question such former JWs' ability to reason. I know it certainly turned me off and delayed my progress in researching the issues I had with the religion's teachings.

  The bottom line is that if you a need a government to tell you how to think - and what religion can and cannot exist, then you might as well have stayed a JW - becuase you had that going for you there.

  I didn't need a government to tell me what was wrong about the JW religion or any other religion. I simply used my thinking ability when reading the Bible and WT publications. I came into a discussion one day when informal witnessing about a matter that I thought I was right about (that is I thought my JW religion was right about it). After studying up on it to prove I was right - I realized I failed miserably - that is my religion failed miserably. In the end it was education that I learned, even partly from the Jw religion itself, that taught me how to really think. How to research. How to form factually based conclusions.

  What governments really need to promote is education. I'm not a super smart guy. Yet I came to the conlcusions I came to without any help from the internet. Now if I can do it like that - then the information and education people have access to around the world makes coming to certain conclusions that much easier. If I want the respect to choose how I believe - I have to give the same respect to others to choose how they believe, even if I think, heck even if I know, that what they believe is completely bogus.

  Moreover, the most serious aspect of all this is that I still consider many JWs my friends - no matter how they think of me. I would never support anything that would put them in Siberia camps and prisons. If people here really think it's good to support a government ban on your old friends and family who still are JWs - then they haven't really gained much freedom by leaving. In my opinion it's going from having one set of old men (religion) make rules for your life to another set of old men (govt). I'll even go so far as to say that I think people that support a govt ban on JWs never really disliked the control and power that others had over them. They miss the rules that were being set for them at a headquarters somewhere.

  Anyway for those lurking or those that have have to stay in for family and those that have wives and children still in the religion - not everybody that leaves the JW religion wants to see it banned and the sufferring that would happen from such a totalitarian outcome. Remember if I can conclude with simply my own thinking ability, the Bible, and WT publications that this religion is faulty and no longer for me - then anybody can. Nobody needs a government to do it for them.
• 

  just n from bethel

  SweetCheez beat me to it - and his post was shorter too. See what education does - it helps people not only think, but be concise.