I was never DF'ed, I wasn't abused, I never lost a loved one to the ban on blood

by OnTheWayOut 75 Replies latest jw friends

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  Podobear

  I kissed my Father's hand this Sunday... the tubes were out of his nose.. the cannulas stuck in his bruised hand. He was 82 on September 4th and has been an Elder for 38years. He had refused blood and had had a total hip replacement two days prior to this.

  His heart faultered and we nearly lost him. I drove the 150 miles to see him and comforted my mother, who is 81, and has opposed him bitterly for 45 years.

  Like Tom and Jerry they can't live together... neither can they live apart. They held hands and they finally realised how much they meant to each other. I sat by his bedside and realised how much I had disappointed both of them. But, I am true to myself.

  It is not that I do not love.. my God.. my family. I just cannot see eye to eye with any religion or mind set that betrays the right of personal conscience.

  We nearly lost Dad, he may not have survived beyond Intensive Care. But, there he was as chirpy as a chipmunk, chatting up the nurses.. giving testimony to his faith.. the Surgical team and Staff were impressed. He is coming home today.. apart from the toilet seat needing a 1" raise, the Physio has sanctioned his discharge and he can't go out for 6 weeks. Mum is delighted that she won't be left lonely during these autumn/winter nights.

  He has been offered the meetings over telephone link. You can imagine her comments.

  I was never DF'ed, I wasn't abused, I never lost a loved one to the ban on blood.

  But I live in this constant emotional torture.

  Podo
• 

  just n from bethel

  I've said it before and I'll probably say it again - the difference between the revelationists/personal-jesus-pushers and the athiests/nonbelievers/I-don't-knowers is that the latter are open to believe that they might be wrong. All anyone has to do is present evidence the same way humans were made to take in such evidence - by concrete data that can be tested and measured.

  Now when it's suggested that the revelationists might be experiencing some kind of hallucination, they adamantly refuse to think that might be a possibility. They can never see themselves going to a specialist trained in helping those hearing voices and having hallucinations - because no matter what the evidence the specialists might give them, they'll just never accept it. Nonbelievers on the other hand would jump at the opportunity to go to a specialist that can provide solid evidence for the existance of supernatural being that they could talk to- they are open to the possibility that they could be wrong, they just need to learn it in the way that this God character supposedly created them to learn - by testable data. As soon as anybody shows them that, they will be happy to believe.They're open to the possibility that they might be wrong.

  But again - the revelationists/personal-jesus-pushers are not open to such ideas. Even entertaining the idea that they could be wrong, might send them into some kind of mental breakdown. Which again is another reason they should really probably be seeking help.

  I once (when I was a JW) had a client ask me (she knew I was a JW) how extensively I believed in my religious doctrine, particularly that Jesus was intervening, or soon would be, in man's affairs - and if it affected me when it came to making business decisions. It got me thinking of all the JWs that put off retirement planning or insurance etc. I of course said no then (and I never did mix religion/doctrine and business), and now it's a non-issue as I don't care about any of it anymore. But I see her point so clear now. And as silly as some JWs were in their business dealings and planning - the die-hard crazy JWs didn't scare my client 1/10th as much as those claiming two way conversations with God or his screener Jesus/JeHiccup. I had to agree - there's not much scarier than doing business with someone hearing voices. I'd take a mormon any day over that. There is no way I could ever do any serious business with somebody that claimed to hear voices from God - and didn't think to get it checked on medically. They would not watch my kids, they would not handle my money, and they sure as heck wouldn't fly my planes (if I ever own any - hey I can dream right).

  The sad part of this is how often they love to say they pity non-believers. They feel sorry them, as if they don't have peace. Well OTWO pretty much cleared that up, but let me second that by saying

  1) Thanks you for your concern but, but don't act like it's more than a redundant expression that gets overused on an internet forum. Without any specfic direction on how to find that testable data to conclude that supernatural voices can be heard and conversed with - well it's meaningless. Let us please give you something more meaningful - not just an expression of peace, but actually help you find it. PM any of us and we'll start helping you find specialists that deal with hallucinations. We will help you find the data that you have not been open to looking at - and the specialists will know how to help you see it in a way that finally lets deal with what you're going through. Truly we have compassion for you, but want to do more than just express peace - we can give you concrete ways on how to find it, by getting you the help you need. Nothing vague. Nothing that involves trances. This brings me to my second point.

  2) We do have peace - more than you can imagine. A satisfied mind - one that doesn't hear voices. one that doesn't mistake coincidences for God's intervention. One that can see ancient books for what they are. One that is open - open to the idea we may even be wrong. That is true peace - and that is where the purest form of kindness and compassion can originate from.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Thanks, Wantstoleave. Sounds about right.

  AGuest, I named you because people here can relate. Another poster just had the Holy Ghost telling them to feed the dog and go to the post office, all ordinary things, but the Holy Ghost tells you to search the newspaper and hop on a plane to New York City and to carry some message to people at JWN. So it fit the response that we need to beware of groups (or individuals in this case) that say "There is the lord." I mean, when you were shown to be wrong on a thread about what the Bible says, you turned up a notch your campaign to declare that YOU have been told what is inspired in the Bible and what is not. That fits excellently the point- beware of these ones that say "there is the lord." Even on this thread you mention "...what I am directed to share."

  But don't worry, I also made the point that it's all not true. I may have singled you out for JWN purposes, but I didn't leave it there.

  Quando, thanks for your thoughts.

  Sabastious, yes- the ultimate hypocrites.

  Hadit, while I see it more like you do, I try to understand that we each have our particular way of looking at it.

  Strength to you, Podobear. The thread title applies only to me. Others might relate, but as mentioned, we all were abused in some way by the WTS. Some have larger crosses to bear.

  Just n, thanks for point 2
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  undercover

  Thanks for this thread, OTWO.

  Gong back to your original post...

  I can relate to a degree. Despite being raised a JW, it wasn't a bad upbringing. I didn't suffer from a lot of the horrors that I've read that others have. I left because I after years of doubt and uncertainty about what I was taught to believe, I finally realized it was a lie. I could no longer support the religion that lied to me.

  I've managed to leave without terrible consequences. The worst aspect is that my wife still defends the WTS and feels a certain amount of guilt for not living up to it's high standards. The tension that exists because of that I guess I could blame on the WTS, but it is what it is. No use blaming anyone...better to find a way to overcome it.

  I'm not usually shunned, though it may happen on occasion. It has lessened over time because I no longer associate with too many JWs, except family. The conditional friends are now just conditional acquaintances.

  Despite not really suffering severe hardships, being in this cult has caused some anquish and pain. It's a part of who we are and it will impact us to some degree the rest of our lives.
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  hotchocolate

  Good thread. I have to say also, I had a good life as a witness. I had an awesome group of friends, a happy marriage, was well accepted and had a great social life there. When you don't know any better you can live quite happily that way.

  It was after I forced myself to admit my marriage was inadequate and non-fulfilling that I allowed myself to honestly evaluate the teachings. I still remember the moment when I realised it was bullshit: I was sitting at the meeting and I read a scripture that completely sealed the deal for me - It chilled me to the core, and I got goosebumps all over.

  I remember feeling trapped.. I was petrified of leaving my support circle, family and friends.. but I knew that there was no way I would ever live a lie.

  My strength of belief was more important than my "safe" and "content" life. I've learnt that I should always follow my heart. "The heart is treacherous" makes me laugh now. What a load of bollocks.
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  mrsjones5

  I can relate to this topic: I was never baptised so I couldn't be df'd, I've never lost a loved one because of the blood policy, and I wasn't sexually abused (I was mentally abused but that would have happened whether my parents were jw or not ), I was raised in the madness of the bOrg and my parents and many of my extended family are still inside. On that level it still affects me. Also my oldest son has made friends with and hangs out a lot with a boy who's parents are jws and who go to the same congregation as my parents (I feel like I'm being spied on sometimes). I'm keeping my eye on the situation.

  I left because since I was 5 years old the bOrg just didn't feel right. I didn't understand why I felt that way at 5 but I did and that feeling never went away. When I got older, using the wtchtower's own publications I proved to myself that the wt was the originator of the 1975 debacule. My father used to tell me that if you find one lie you're sure to find more, which is so ironic cuz my father doesn't appy the same to the bOrg and in his old age has become a hardline jw (something he never was when I was a child - it's disconcerting), 1975 was the start of my finding the rest of the lies told by the wt/bOrg. I just couldn't be a part of something like that.

  Some of my family, for either the same reason as mine or their own, have left. I wish more of my family could see the real light and leave.
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  its_me!

  Thank you OTWO. This only confirms my beliefs about the ORG. I did have some painful experiences with the elders in my hall, but the again, I am a woman. But it is good to know that you and others, did not have these experiences and still came to the same conclusion. It makes me feel more validated in my decision. Not that I need it, even if Armageddon were just right around the corner, and all of the JW prophecies were true, I still could not be a part of this religion. It would be like saying, " Okay Hitler, I will believe what you want me to, just don't kill me...."
• 

  PSacramento

  I am a little confused here...

  OTWO, you say you were not burned by the WT, but then you state this:

  I explained on some post somewhere that I had felt that I experienced "divine intervention" in my life at one time and that same intervention ended my suicide attempt. A huge part of my concern is that I know what my "intervention" led to- eventual joining a dangerous mind-control cult. (In my case, the JW's.) I denied for years and years that my intervention was anything other than what I believed it was. I was absolutely 100% certain of what I had experienced being genuine and beneficial to me, right up until I knew that was not the case. The direction I thought I received seemed fully beneficial to me and never was I guided to destructive actions, quite the opposite. Yet, eventually I realized that such an experience was a product of my own mind. If I had received proper medical help immediately instead of just a couple of doctors making sure I was done wanting to kill myself and putting me back on my way in life, I am pretty sure I would have avoided becoming a JW.

  No offense, but it sounds liek you were REALLY BURNT by them.

  You said that you felt a "divine intervention" saved your life and that this intervention led you to the WT and that when you finally realised that it was all in your head, that is when you lef tthe WT, am I understanding you correctly?
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  UC, I have not even been shunned. I have been "avoided" but it was lightly, and it was always elders.

  Hotchocolate, I felt somewhat the same.

  Mrs. J.- I wish some more of my family (and wife's family) would see the light, feel the wrongness too. Maybe it will happen one day for you and/or me.

  it's_me, glad to help ya.

  PSac, you have it essentially correct. I mentioned in a further post on page one that I was aware of irony in the thread. I suppose I could have been clearer that there's some contradictions too. I had a bunch of baggage that needed to be processes and WTS took advantage of that and kept me from processing it. I can't just lump it all into WTS's lap and say that it was all from being burned by them, but I had to arrive at that conclusion. The idea of the thread was that I am not some time-bomb or that I have a huge chip on my shoulder about my treatment that causes me to say what I say. I notice that there are plenty of others that feel similar and I wanted to reach out for them/us. Strength and contentment to those that did suffer terribly, but many of us have strong feelings about this damned dangerous mind-control cult even without shunning, abuse, being kicked out, and losing people to their medical errors.
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  AGuest

  THANK you, cear PSacto... TRULY... and peace to you! Here's is why:

  I explained on some post somewhere that I had felt that I experienced "divine intervention" in my life at one time and that same intervention ended my suicide attempt.

  And if ANYONE had told dear OTWO that he was crazy he would have totally rejected that "advice."

  A huge part of my concern is that I know what my "intervention" led to- eventual joining a dangerous mind-control cult. (In my case, the JW's.)

  However, that is NOT the case for everyone. For SOME of us... ME... it led FROM such dangerous mind-control cult.

  I denied for years and years that my intervention was anything other than what I believed it was.

  I didn't. I have totally accepted what it was... and what I believed it was: Christ.

  I was absolutely 100% certain of what I had experienced being genuine and beneficial to me, right up until I knew that was not the case.

  Yet, you wish to deny other that same FREEDOM. I was absolutely 100% certain that what I experienced was genuine and beneficial to ME... and am STILL absolutely 100% certain. How is that anyone else's concern? Because I share what my Lord gives me... for myself or to share with others? Because I can say, with confidence, that what he tells/shows me is TRUE? So what? So, because there are those who listen to me? You are total error, dear OTWO. They DON'T listen to me at all... nor should they. Just like you throw out what YOU think and believe... it is entirely up to others as to what they will accept or reject. I can't and don't make anyone do a single thing, including opening my threads (which for some reason YOU feel YOU need to do. Why??).

  But the bottom line is that they shouldn't be listening to ME at all. And I have stated that many, many times. If they want to know what God says/thinks/wants/does, etc., my message has ALWAYS been that THEY (and you) can... and SHOULD... do EXACTLY what I do: NOT listen to ANY man, including me, but go DIRECTLY TO THE SOURCE.

  The direction I thought I received seemed fully beneficial to me and never was I guided to destructive actions, quite the opposite.

  How can you say that? You don't think pushing WTBTS teachings isn't destructive? Seriously? How many folks who've lost loved ones for want of medicine/blood would agree with you? How many who've lost or been abandoned/rejected by family/loved ones would agree with you? Sure, you were taught "no war," "no weapons," "love your neighbor," etc. But while that is what they SAY... it is NOT what they DO... or what those who willingly associate with them do. Their "war" and "weapons" are just not of the usual kind. And their "love"... well, others have addressed that as well as I could have, above.

  And it doesn't stop there. Millions... MILLIONS... may suffer ULTIMATE destruction because of their specific teachings. Those who sat in judgment of others, those who blasphemed... those who "traversed sea and dry land to make ONE proselyte and when [such one] becomes one... make HIM a subject for Ge·hen´na twice as much so as themselves." And YOU were ONE of them... as was I. Now, perhaps you don't feel YOU have any responsibility... any bloodguilt, but I don't feel that way. Because I don't know WHO was affected by MY association with them. And so, as I've said MANY times... I am only working out MY salvation. Whether you or others hear... or refrain.

  Yet, eventually I realized that such an experience was a product of my own mind.

  As to them, I totally agree... and I (and others) have said that MANY times here: it is NOT God's fault; it is ours. We listened to our OWN counsel... followed our OWN hearts. If, then, your experience was a product of your OWN mind... why do YOU yet blame God?

  If I had received proper medical help immediately instead of just a couple of doctors making sure I was done wanting to kill myself and putting me back on my way in life, I am pretty sure I would have avoided becoming a JW.

  But you will never truly KNOW that, will you? AND... it seems by THIS statement that it was not GOD who failed you... but "SCIENCE." Yet, you cannot "see" that. Because... you don't WANT to. And so, your mind is STILL fooling you, dear one.

  Now I will address what you stated to me directly (and for those who are only interested in the other vein of this thread, i.e., not being DF'd, abused, etc., please overlook and excuse, but this part is, to me, just as important since dear OTWO did... and has again... addressed ME):

  I named you because people here can relate.

  You are not speaking the truth, dear OTWO. Others could have related just on your mentioning ANYONE who professes to hear the voice of Christ. You named me because you believe me to be the "leader," of such thinking, which I am not. There are MANY here who experience the same thing. The only difference is that I have never doubted... or hidden it.

  Another poster just had the Holy Ghost telling them to feed the dog and go to the post office, all ordinary things,

  First, I am not understanding why there's any difference. The point supposedly is that they HEAR the Holy Spirit. But perhaps you're saying that so long as the Spirit only speaks of mundane things, then that's totally okay. But if he were to speak of "spiritual" things... oh, oops, nope, that can't happen. Seriously? HE'S A SPIRIT. Why wouldn't he SPEAK of things related to that which IS of the spirit?

  but the Holy Ghost tells you to search the newspaper and hop on a plane to New York City and to carry some message to people at JWN.

  Absolutely. Do you think he's so limited that all he CAN speak about is dogs and visits to the post office?

  So it fit the response that we need to beware of groups (or individuals in this case) that say "There is the lord."

  We also need to beware of people who LIE on such people because THEIR lack of faith cannot comprehend what such individual is SAYING. For example, I have NEVER said "There is the Lord." To the contrary, I have said on NUMEROUS occasions... he is NOT here. WE... are in the "wilderness"... having been "set free" from "slavery" in "Egypt." HE... is is the "promised land"... "preparing a PLACE" for us. While he is AWAY... he SPEAKS to us... so as to GUIDE us... THROUGH this wilderness... until he RETURNS... and "gathers" us. He SPEAKS... by means of the holy spirit of God... WHICH "oil" he anoints us with. It is THROUGH that anointing that he speaks. He is "with" us IN SPIRIT... but NOT in PERSON. He is not here, dear one... other than by spirit.

  I mean, when you were shown to be wrong on a thread about what the Bible says, you turned up a notch your campaign to declare that YOU have been told what is inspired in the Bible and what is not.

  Again, you are not stating the truth. I have stated for YEARS... that my Lord's words to ME, that "all that I tell you is written [albeit, not necessarily in the Bible], but not all that is written [including in the Bible] is what I will tell you," are true. I have stated that so many times here I cannnot count. That you have only been recently even paying attention to what I post... and therefore, most probably missing a great deal... does NOT mean that I am suddenly making things up. You showed me where "the Bible" stated slavery was okay. I took that matter to my Lord and asked HIM, "Wait, Lord, you just told me that slavery was NOT okay to the Most Holy One of Israel, but this one is showing me where it says it is in the Bible." And his response to me is that it was NOT, that it was the false stylus of MEN... SCRIBES... who wrote what THEY wanted into the "Law" and that that is why he condemned such ones' works... along with that of the Pharisees.

  There is a WHOLE LOT supposedly "written" in the Law... that was NOT part of the Law handed down to Moses. How do we know? Look... at... Christ. Because... HE... is... the... FULFILLMENT... of... the... Law. And here is what he has just said to me, now:

  "The word of the Most Holy One of Israel to you, child is:

  'Abraham had the Law written on his heart. And he knew what was taking place in Sodom. Yet, who did he judge? Who did he condemn? When did he ever tell Lot to leave Sodom? He did not. Instead, the Law that I put on HIS heart led him to PLEAD for Sodom... not judge it or condemn it... because such belongs to me. How, then, could the written Law be any different than the Law I wrote on Abraham's heart? Moses, too, had the same law written on his heart; yet, he killed the Egyptian? How, then, could he be chosen to lead Israel out of Egypt having blood on his hands? My people do not know my Law. They did not know it then, which is why it was written... and they don't know it today... because they look to what is written on stone and in ink... and not to what was supposed to be on the heart. They do this because they do not know Me. They did not know me then... and do not know me, now. They do not know Me because they refuse to know the One who I sent to teach it to them. Then... and now. Then, they only needed to look to Moses; yet, in just few days they rebelled... and continued to rebel against that one. Today, they only need to look toward my Beloved. But, again, they rebel. As always, Israel is a hard-headed, hard-hearted, stiff-necked people, and the day will come when I will not allow a plea to be made oh their behalf any longer. I will fulfill my promise to Abraham... and then I will forget Israel. No longer will I pursue a people whose hearts are hard, but My spirit with be with and upon those who hearts are receptive, who love MY Law, and NOT the laws that they themselves have contrived in order to dominate their fellowman, oppress my sheep, and bring the earth to ruin. I will have my full of them and then no more. No more will THEIR voices be heard in the earth, but only the voice of my Beloved Lamb will be. And to him the nations will stream. From him the nations will eat. And because of him they will preserve their souls alive.'

  That is what I heard from my Lord, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, Son and Christ of the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. Whether you hear, dear OTWO... or refrain. I have shared it just as I heard it.

  That fits excellently the point- beware of these ones that say "there is the lord."

  I would absolutely agree. For such ones are FALSE "christs"... meaning, FALSE anointed. However, if there are false ones, there are true ones. But how are YOU to know? By their "fruits." And my "fruit" is peaceable, forgiving, merciful, and releasing... and gives ALL glory to God and Christ. I take NONE for myself... because if I don't know anything else, I know that I know NOTHING... absolutely NOTHING... and only share what I am given by that One.

  Even on this thread you mention "...what I am directed to share."

  And I tell you truthfully who gives me such direction... without deceit... without impure or selfish motive... without rancor... without judgment... and without fear. I only fear NOT doing as that One directs me, not because I fear him, but because I fear disappointing him... and failing to serve you FOR him.

  I bid you peace, dear OTWO. I do not bid that you accept or believe me; truly, you should NOT listen to ME... but to the One who speaks to YOU, TOO, from the kingdom of God... which can also be IN you, as well... if you wish it.

  YOUR servant and a slave of Christ, to time indefinite,

  SA