If Christ was Divine, How Could He Have Been Tempted?

by leavingwt 141 Replies latest jw friends

  • jaguarbass
    jaguarbass

    Some people say jesus lost years were spent in India where he became a wise man or a guru type.

    For you, me or Jesus not to have wrong desires requires daly maintenance, the simplest way would be to say the lords

    prayer and live by it, where it says lead us not into evil and deliver us from temptation.

    Secularly today people who want to control theri thinking couls use nuerolinquistic programing or hypnotism

    with positive affirmations.

    Everyday we start a new and either pursue evil or flee from it. We either behave or miss behave.

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    He was obedient to His parents according to Luke 2:51.

    Jesus of Nazareth was the perfect Jewish son, and we know what is said about Jewish sons and their mothers.

    Even while hanging from the tree, His thoughts were for His mother, giving someone last-minute instructions to care for her.

    Syl

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    My Lord was not "divine" when he was here in the flesh, dear LWT (peace to you!). He was "divine" when he was with the Father... and returned to that divinity when he ascended and returned back. In between, when he was here in the flesh, he was in a body that held sin and death in it. That's why it had to come through a woman (otherwise, he could have just manifested and put on flesh; however, such flesh, but it wouldn't have had sin and death IN it, could also be put back off - which is what spirit beings did and do).

    The flesh he had "inherited" sin and death from the woman, Mary (whose flesh he was - he had no father of flesh). Thus, it not only aged, it not only became very sick, diseased (with all sorts of infirmities)... it could not only be tempted... it could... and did... die. Perfect flesh... flesh withOUT sin and death IN it... cannot die.

    He had to come in that kind of vessel - flesh with its blood and thus sin and death in it - in order for it to be able to be said that he had indeed and in fact "suffered" ALL that we suffer... and been "tested" in ALL respects LIKE US... and yet, did not sin. The sin of the flesh is NOT the same thing as "sinning." The sin of the flesh is the "corruption" IN the flesh that causes it to age, get sick, die. "Sin", as in committing sin... are acts that either our flesh does (although our spirit does not want to)... which sins are readily and easily forgivable... or acts of the SPIRIT... which are not so easily forgivable. The first occurs when, while the spirit is willing the flesh is weak and so one succumbs to its desires. The latter, however, is "wilfull" sin... NOT meaning that some knows a thing is wrong but does it anyway (we all so succumb)... but meaning we CHOOSE such sin... over obedience to God.

    Let me explain, please:

    Sin of the Flesh - A man hasn't eaten in days and is hungry. He knows it is wrong to steal but as he passes a fruit stand grabs an apple. Okay, several apples. He feels terrible about it but the way his flesh feels is worse. Although he doesn't want to steal, doesn't want to be a thief... he is a slave of his flesh... and its desires, including hunger. And the desires of his flesh win over the desires of his spirit. He eats the apples and while his flesh does feel a bit "better"... his spirit feels terrible.

    Sin of the Spirit - A man is full, indeed he has an orchard of apples at his disposal; however, he wants another orchard, in fact the one next door. So, he makes an offer to his neighbor to buy the neighbor's orchard; however, the neighbor doesn't want to sell. Now, there are other orchards for sale, but the man wants the neighbor's orchard because it produces larger, sweeter apples than his, which he could sell for a good profit, but the neighbor only uses the apples for family and friends. And so he sits down to conceive a way to get his neighbor's orchard. Finally, he comes up with a plan, which plan will not only get him the orchard, but do great harm to his neighbor in the process. But the man doesn't care one bit. He spirit is not affected at all, because his heart believes he really SHOULD have that orchard, that he "deserves" it more than his neighbor because (1) he's better/smarter/cuter than his neighbor, and (2) he will do more with it.

    In the accounts where my Lord was tempted he (1) had been in the wilderness 40 days and (2) had had nothing to eat during those 40 days. So, unlike most of US... he was in quite a weakened state when the Adversary even began his temptation. But just like it was necessary for my Lord to be in flesh that was JUST LIKE ours (and so, come through a woman), it was also necessary for him to be weakened, so that (1) the Adversary couldn't say, "Oh, yeah, well, he's YOUR (God's) Son and so of COURSE he could withstand the test; and (2) the test would be even that more arduous.

    The PURPOSE of the test, however, was first born out in the account of Job. There, Satan challenged the Most Holy One of Israel that the ONLY reason the man Job was as God referred to him (i.e., His "servant"; blameless; upright; fearing God; turning away from evil; and that there was no one else like him in the earth)... was because God pretty much coddled him... put a hedge around him and all that he had... so that he never really had to suffer. He then turned that challenge directly upon Job and said:

    "... touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face."

    While God Himself didn't "touch" Job and his belongings, He did allow Satan to. Why? Because it was not up to God to prove what Job would or would not do; it was up to Job. The accusation had been raised and rather than answer for Job, the Most Holy One of Israel allowed Job to answer for himself.

    And He has allowed ALL mankind... and particularly His Son... to answer that same accusation. That is why Satan is called "the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them night and day."

    Unfortunately, most of us can't withstand that accusation. Satan is right with regard to most of us: as soon as God removes His protection and leaves us exposed... and we suffer as a result of such exposure... we curse Him. To His very face.

    But, PRAISE JAH... there is One who can answer FOR us. Christ. He withstood the Adversary's accusations. In doing so, he not only answered the specific request of the Most Holy One of Israel... to "be wise and make my heart rejoice, that I may make a reply to him that is taunting me"... but also provided that reply on behalf of those of US who cannot do it ourselves (everyone)... but are willing to put faith in HIM (some). HIS reply can stand in for ours, if we are in union with him and part of HIS Body.

    But he wouldn't have been able to MAKE that reply if he had been in perfect flesh. If he had been "divine" at the time. Because the Accuser would have argued that it wasn't a FAIR test... that OF COURSE he didn't give in and yield to the temptations set before him... because it really wasn't a temptation for HIM.

    Please also note that while dear Sylvie (peace to you, dear one!) is correct that the KJV states that "God was manifest in the flesh," that is not what the original Greek stated. There, it stated that "he" was manifest in the flesh and the "he" is Christ, who the account was speaking of several verses above.

    I hope this helps and I bid you peace!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    AGuest

    What you were trying to say is that Christ was not divine when he was in the form of man. Simple see.

    I get the impression that you are more of a slave to words than a slave of Christ.

  • clarity
    clarity

    OUTLAW .... you just make my day with your sense of humour. Where do you find those jokey pics??

    What would we do without you...........from one BCer to another! c (best I could do!)

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Sigh. I said that, yes, dear Glad (glad to see you and peace to you!)... and then I explained further, for those who might take exception to my saying that. Most of those read the Bible, however, so I guess I could have just quoted Romans 8:3, which says, in MOST versions:

    "For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinfulflesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh" and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh"

    However, you have the NLT, which some read and which states:

    "The law of Moses could not save us, because of our sinful nature. But God put into effect a different plan to save us. He sent his own Son in a human body like ours, except that ours are sinful. God destroyed sin's control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins."

    Indicating the positions that his wasn't, which is untrue. And so I explained my statement that:

    "My Lord was not "divine" when he was here in the flesh.... He was "divine" when he was with the Father... and returned to that divinity when he ascended and returned back. In between, when he was here in the flesh, he was in a body that held sin and death in it."

    If that's okay with you. And, again, peace to you!

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    AGuest -- Thank you. So, it was just a man who was put to death for our sins?

  • Ding
    Ding

    I would respectfullly disagree with AGuest's view that Jesus was not divine at the same time he was human. John 1:1, 14; Col. 2:9; Heb. 1:1-8; Titus 2:13.

    I believe that the Bible teaches that he was both divine and human. It was as a man that he was killed. His divine nature did not die.

  • believingxjw
    believingxjw

    LWT,

    "How did Satan tempt a person who has no wrong desires?"

    Every free agent can be tempted. Every free agent can fail. Every angel can fail. Every man can fail. Wrong desires do not have to be present it's the temptation that causes the wrong desires as shown by Eve in the Garden and by Satan's temptation of Jesus himself.

    Let's get with common sense here.

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    For those who believe he was not "fully God", then the temptations seem less of a problem, but I would ask them, how does one tempt a "perfect" man? Does a perfect man have wrong desires?

    Adam was apparently perfect as well, except he didn't have the experience of billions of years of being an omnipotent entity (not to mention the First Cause, or the first creation of the First Cause, depending on how you interpret the Bible).

    -Sab

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