Modesty VS Faith

For me, I don't need faith. I prefer to engage with what is in front of my eyes, what is so, what is in this moment. I guess that makes me a pragmatist. I know that everything ends, so I try to enjoy what is there while it is there. When things change, I try to enjoy the new stuff. My *modesty* tells me I can't know the future, my heart tells me I don't need to know the future.

Butler said, "God is change." Certainly change is a consistent part of the landscape.

Syl: I like the way you put that. It's not how I was raised to view faith, it's a more functional, useful definition.

SweetBabyCheezits

My JW parents "know" what will happen after they die. Rasheed the Muslim "knows" what will happen when he dies. Ed the Baptist "knows" what will happen when he dies. But none of them know in the absolute sense. It's all relative. Their faith requires themto believe with such certainty that they "know"... right? Maybe I'm wrong.

To waver in certainty of belief shows a lack of faith, doesn't it? So faith, in the strongest sense, demands that you know (in a relative sense), right?

I don't know.

Meeting Junkie No More

SBC: this is the problem with the word KNOW in English - there is the know as in knowledge, and there is the know as in I know someone - the difference between sapere and conoscere in Italian; sais and connait in French, wissen and kennen in German - there is no difference unfortunately in the ENGLISH! This is a big problem...

snowbird

My JW parents "know" what will happen after they die. Rasheed the Muslim "knows" what will happen when he dies. Ed the Baptist "knows" what will happen when he dies. But none of them know in the absolute sense. It's all relative.

You just knocked it out of the park with that one!

Their faith requires themto believe with such certainty that they "know"... right? Maybe I'm wrong.

If they "knew," there would be no need for faith.

To waver in certainty of belief shows a lack of faith, doesn't it?

No, shows we're human.

So faith, in the strongest sense, demands that you know (in a relative sense), right?

No, faith requires belief and hope, not certainty.

I don't know.

I don't either, in the fullest sense, of course.

LOL.

Syl

tec

Well, I don't 'know' either, what happens after I die, or even what heaven really is. I leave that to him (Christ) and entrust myself to Him. I have faith in the promises that Christ made, that there are 'many rooms' in his father's house. But I don't know exactly what that means, and I don't need to, because I trust Him.

I like Syl's definition of faith, too. Its even in the bible: " Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for , the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.” Hebrews 11:1

Tammy

SweetBabyCheezits

VoidEater: My *modesty* tells me I can't know the future, my heart tells me I don't need to know the future.

Well said! I wish my parents could understand that such a perspective is by no means dismal or hollow. They are hurt that I'd try to convince them that their faith is based on falsehood and yet I don't give them "anything better" as a replacement for their beautiful hope.

I've tried to explain that my beliefs are not based on the prettiest picture but on the best available evidence. A person diagnosed with cancer can live in denial but it doesn't change the fact that they have cancer. Better to face reality and make lemonade. (As you can see, my illustrations probably don't help their perspective: reality = cancer. lol)

Thank you for the other comments as well.

Modesty VS Faith

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