Farkel, would you expect any differently? LOL
Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!
by sacolton 33 Replies latest jw friends
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thetrueone
If anyone has any info in how this all came about please post it.
Did the French government always tax the WTS in that country ?
Why does the French government want taxes on donations to a church ?
The WTS. probably makes most of their income from donations toward their literature.
Perhaps the government still sees the literature as something taxable irregardless of its religious nature.
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StoneWall
Farkel makes a good point here that should be pointed out again:
If they really wanted to follow the same rules they impose on their little worker bees, they would have paid disputed taxes, whether they were fair or not, just to "look" "spotless to the world." Of course, most of us know they NEVER follow the same rules they impose on those who worship them.
Remember being in the Org and being told to pay our taxes.
So that we could point to it as showing that we as JW's were honest in our dealings and in this way by paying taxes, we help out the community at large with much needed services such as fire and emergency services as well as the upkeep of the roads we used to call on peoples homes by paying taxes. Render Caesar's things to Caesar.
Then I can't even begin to count how many times this scripture in Romans was quoted to me.
Romans 13:7 [NWT] "Render to all their dues, to him who [calls for] the tax, the tax; to him who [calls for] the tribute, the tribute; to him who [calls for] fear, such fear; to him who [calls for] honor, such honor."
Why is it when we wanted to complain about taxes maybe being unfair it was a big No-No, and yet now the WTBTS is doing the same thing?
Reminds me also of this scripture in Romans 2:21,22[NWT] "do you, however, the one teaching someone else, not teach yourself? You, the one preaching “Do not steal,” do you steal? You, the one saying “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You, the one expressing abhorrence of the idols, do you rob temples? "
You could carry that idea in Romans 2 along the thought of:
You the one telling others to pay the tax without complaining, do you pay your tax without complaining and going to court?
You the one saying pay back Caesars things, do you pay back to Caesar what is asked of you? (Or do you take them to court?)
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TastingFreedom
This is great news, I hope other countries do the same. Screw the Watchtower!
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sd-7
Excellent point, StoneWall. In all this time, that never even occurred to me. Should not the Watchtower Society be leading by example in paying taxes to Caesar, as all individual Jehovah's Witnesses must do?
In terms of the appearance of righteousness, had they started paying taxes from the beginning, they'd have the privilege of looking down on Christendom and others who refuse to "render Caesar's things to Caesar". Instead, they end up, albeit unintentionally, supporting the cause of any other religion who may be asked to pay taxes. So in a way, they are supporting the financial growth of 'false religion'!
Jesus himself paid taxes to avoid giving a negative impression. Corporations like the Watchtower Society did not exist then, but should not the same principles apply? Freedom of religion is hardly a guarantee that religion should therefore be tax-exempt, especially given how exempt religion often is from moral responsibility for the sometimes negative effects of what it teaches.
I don't know if this is an issue of freedom of religion, as Jehovah's Witnesses can continue to preach the good news without the Watchtower Society, without the financial value of an association. Can't they? Won't they still have their Bibles, their mouths, and their organization? Is Jesus so powerless that he would permit his 'theocratic organization' to grind to a halt because the business end got taxed into oblivion? Presumably, no. They're not banning them from meeting for worship or from engaging in their ministry, are they? If not, what's the big deal? Times are tough. It makes sense that the government is looking to unusual sources to boost its income.
Frankly, why stop there? Religion has long been exempt from paying its dues, while simultaneously urging government policies of one sort or another. If you want to have a say, why not submit to the laws that every other citizen has to submit to, including taxation?
-sd-7
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undercover
The ECHR took note of the fact that throughout the court proceedings within France, Jehovah’s Witnesses had consistently maintained that the contested tax was a direct attack on their religious freedom. In fact, it had been imposed on them within the context of the France government’s ‘fight’ against so-called ‘sects.’ Jehovah’s Witnesses contend that since the retroactive 60-percent tax applied to all donations received over a period of four years such a tax was impossible to pay since the donations had already been used for the ongoing operating expenses of the association. Thus, as argued by Jehovah’s Witnesses, the 60-percent retroactive tax was simply a fiscal weapon used with the purpose of closing down the headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses in France simply because they appeared on the government’s “black list.”
The Court must now proceed to examine the merits of the case to determine whether or not the taxation scheme of the French government interfered with the religious freedom of Jehovah’s Witnesses in France.
The ECHR pretty much has to at least review the case because the WTS claims that their religious freedom is under attack. If they just bitched about big ole bully France taxing them, they wouldn't have much of a case. The French government can tax or not tax as they chose. They are the government. But charge them with attacking religious freedom and it becomes stickier. The key statement is the last statement. The court must examine the merits of the case to deteremine if the taxation scheme interfered with the religious freedom of JWs in France.
What could be sticky for France is that since they've taken a harder line against "sects" and "cults", it may appear that France has less patience for JWs than say, Pentecostals. If it appears that they singled out JWs then they could very well have the court rule against them. Even then, France may be urged to change the tax rate and rules. It won't be a trumpet blast of freedom for the WTS...just money they don't have to pay.
As pointed out by others already, I find it somewhat hypocritical of the WTS to fight this hard on not paying taxes when they keep harping on the rank and file to obey the authorities and to pay back Caeser's things to Caeser. But it is a hypocritical publishing/real estate holding company under the guise of religion and I think the French government knows that and they want their cut. Just like the head mob guy gets a cut of the little mob guys take when operating in their "area".
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Mythbuster
If it ends up they have to pay all of this money, I feel sorry for the rank and file witnesses who will be badgered for funds by the GB/FDS/whoever.
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OUTLAW
Debator/Reniaa..
The" Christian Association of Jehovah’s Witnesses of France"..Owned by the WBT$..
Was asked to declare donations it had recieved..Over a period of four years from 1993 to 1996
As usual the WBT$ felt they were Above the Law..And..Refused..
Now the WBT$ must pay the Price,for Breaking the Law..
Lets put that into Terms you can Understand..
You Publicly Admit to,refusing to follow WBT$ Rules..
You feel you are above WBT$ Law..
If you ever become a Jehovah`s Witness..
There will be Consequenses for Breaking WBT$ Law..
The WBT$ will Punish you..
..........................
...OUTLAW -
Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Wow, Watchtower still hasn't won this one? I remember when I was still in Bethel how they were boasting that they were going to teach France a thing or two. They kept expecting that France would turn on the Catholic Church for money instead. Just another false prophecy from Botchtowerland.
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onemore
What could be sticky for France is that since they've taken a harder line against "sects" and "cults", it may appear that France has less patience for JWs than say, Pentecostals. If it appears that they singled out JWs then they could very well have the court rule against them. Even then, France may be urged to change the tax rate and rules. It won't be a trumpet blast of freedom for the WTS...just money they don't have to pay.
The Court must now proceed to examine the merits of the case to determine whether or not the taxation scheme of the French government interfered with the religious freedom of Jehovah’s Witnesses in France.
Here is an important piece of information regarding this case: The court, based in the French city of Strasbourg, however rejected a case of religious discrimination against the Jehovah's Witnesses.
This means that the Watchtower is not on a good position to defend itself. I have nothing against the JW…but I hope that the WT loose this case and many more.
