Never Wake Up

by brotherdan 97 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  yknot

  You don't need her permission to take a break.....

  Maybe just reduce your meeting schedule some.... no more weeknight meetings or every other week....maybe only the PT and not WTStudy.

  I think a counselor might be helpful to give you a safe place to vent and workout some marital mediation...

  Either way it was a fight..... we all have fights.....don't dwell or stew, forgive and let it go so it doesn't weigh you down...

  ______

  I like Avengers idea somewhat about expressing anger......maybe take the lead in your couples' study and start asking her about her perspective and sense of balance on what is being taught or some historical relevent question.

  sisterly hugs! (even I was once like your wife.....)
• 

  brotherdan

  Thanks guys. Do you ever just feel so tired? I mean, my wife thinks I'm an angry apostate. I don't feel like that. I don't feel malicious. I don't feel like I'm "out to get" anyone. But she makes me feel like that. I was with her and another JW for almost 2 weeks in Hawaii, and it screwed me up. I had dreams about JWN and all of you guys almost every night. It's really getting to me. They were nightmares. And what is worse....the were almost exactly like what happened tonight. It really sucks.

  I know for SURE that this org is not God's. But where does that leave me? My wife told me how selfish I have been for only taking care of my own spirituality. And I can't help but agree with her. I feel like a lousy husband and father. But if I take the step that I feel needs to be taken to be a GOOD husband and father...well...that willl ruin so many other things. I'm so lost.
• 

  Broken Promises

  Hugs to you, Dan.

  I understand the frustration you have in trying to reason with your wife. Trying to reason with a JW when they are not prepared to listen is very difficult, and it's easy for the temper to rise.

  All I can say is just hang in there. It sounds like you love your wife very much, so just try to focus on being a good husband and father. Avoid talking about the Witnesses as much as you can. You are NOT selfish for wanting to find your feet spiritually - would she rather you be a hypocrite at the KH?

  Give it time. And try to get a good night's sleep. This board will still be here in the morning when you wake up.
• 

  GLTirebiter

  Brotherdan, I wish there was more I could do besides besides offer sympathy.

  The way she talked to me and defended the org today was unlike the way she talks about anything. She was not reasonable and she was attacking and insulting. It made me want to be the same way. I tried to hold back, but I kept saying things like, "It's jus because you don't have the knowledge of what is going on."

  She took that to mean that I was calling her stupid.

  Her response shows that the emotional ties to the WT are so deep, anything the least bit critical of the organization is also a personal attack on her. She responds accordingly; this is the "cult personality" at work.

  Do what you can to keep the lines of communication working. Be wary of saying "you" or anything that could be misconstrued as referring to her. People on the defensive stop listening the moment they perceive an attack--real or imagined. Save your words for the times when she will listen to them.

  Keep yourself under control and know when to back off. Anger will not help; it is one more thing that will be held against you. Vent with us or a trusted friend instead, that's what we're here for.
• 

  cognizant dissident

  If you want to feel peace inside, Brother Dan, you are going to have let go of the idea that you are responsible in any way for anyone else's "spirituality", including your wife's. That's just another guilt inducing teaching of the WTBTS that she is using on you and you are buying into.

  Letting go of that belief also means letting go of the belief that it is your responsibility to get your wife out of the organization. There are a million different beliefs in this world. We either accept them or we don't. Each of us is responsible for what beliefs we accept or reject. Most people accept the ones they were first taught as children. A few people look past that and it usually puts them at odds with their social groups. This is not just a phenomenon unique to JW's.

  Remember, YOU don't have to DO anything at this point. Well, maybe take a break because you are tired. If your in-laws believe they have demons, let them get their own hotel room and pay for it themselves. You don't have to do anything.

  If your wife wants to go along with them, rant and carry and on and get angry with you, let her. You don't have to do anything. In fact doing nothing is the easiest way to show up their craziness. There they are getting all worked up and emotional and angry, and there you will be, calm, quiet, rational. Nothing to get upset or angry about. Nothing makes a crazy person look more crazy than when they are ranting at a person who is saying and doing nothing. (Note: not going to the meetings is also doing nothing). Try simply not going because you are "tired". Don't argue or try to convince them it is the "right" thing to do. See what happens. You will be amazed at the drama that will unfold before your eyes without you having to do a thing! Then you will come to realize how little control you have over anything but yourself.

  Cog
• 

  yknot

  okay last post of the night....(craft project finally finished!!!!)

  My wife told me how selfish I have been for only taking care of my own spirituality

  .... she misses your presence and leadership .....

  You can't do what you want to do because you are an evil apostate in the JWworld.......

  You won't ever be able to either unless you convince her you can be trusted in spiritually.....

  I know you are sick of meetings but the fastest remedy to this by appearing uber-jw (her current fantasy)........after you manage her to convince her you are back in the program you can start to steer her down the path you want her to go one step at a time.

  I know that sounds like an eternity but in the bigger picture a year or so's investment that reaps you your family is well worth the mental burden of living a double life.

  Patience, the WTS is counting on you not having enough to win this game......

  ........ I guess they don't push that " long suffering" schtick on you boys like they do on us girls.........

  http://youtube.com/v/sl6szsGsE1s Believe as God believes in you.......
• 

  Evidently Apostate

  dan,

  i too am desperate to help my wife see the falsehood in this cult. i have never thought of the religion i nievely accepted as truth 20 years ago was in fact a cult, now we all know what the truth is, but she dosent. my beautiful wife will look at me with this look of fear and disbelief sometimes when we have a deep discussion that shines the org in a negative light. i find i can only take the conversation so far and then she changes sometimes its only a look in her eyes but i know reasoning is done and to continue is futile. your wife has a defence mechanism that becomes aggresive the longer you debate WT logic. STAY OFF THE SUBJECT walk away man, it is not worth it . winning an argument should not be the goal, getting your family out is, keep that in mind always.i have felt like you at times that i may end up giving up and walking away, i sometimes start to realize she is never going to truly listen to me. i cannot make demands of her at those times, she has to see the org for its deceptive tactics. you can start your fade, i have and it is very slow and subtle. i have told my wife i will attend a couple sunday meetings a month to pacify those inthe hall and keep the kids from thinking too much. thats it i do not bring up WT doctrine to her or attemp to scale the ignorance wall if she comes at me a question. before you answer think to yourself is this an attack or is she genuine? she has been well trained to use leading questions. go have a beer instead of continuing a discussion that has no purpose. we have been taught that people at the door may have something change i thier life that may make them more receptive to the witnesses and to have patience,use that logic for now

  i thank this board for the people on it , not the ones that just witness bash but those like you, we just want our lives and our families

  peace
• 

  Black Sheep

  For decades JWs sit in KHs & DCs & WT studies, TMS etc.. being berated not to listen to the big scary APOSTATES and then ......

  ..... as soon as they find out they have been in a cult .....

  .....they forget that everyone else was listing to, and studying, all of the same tripe and announce to their loved ones that they are in a cult.

  Before you say anything to a JW, remember that they will not listen to negativity. It only tells them that you are the big scary APOSTATE. Nothing else.

  Every topic you pick on further strengthens their fear of you and their resolve not to listen.

  You have to pick on the one core belief, the one that supports all other beliefs and question that one in such a way that they have no option but to have a go at answering it. If they can't answer it, don't start on another subject and don't let them start on another subject. You have to hammer it home that they can't support the WTs primary doctrine, so keep asking them to support it until they throw you out or admit it. Point out every double standard they try to use to weasel their way out of answering your question. Make them try to justify every type of dishonesty they try to use.

  You don't have to 'win' every conversation. I am happy just to have them know that I know that they knowingly lied to me. They have to sleep at night.
• 

  inbetween

  hang in there brotherdan, things always get worse before they get better.

  maybe subconsciuolsy she reacted so strong, because deep down she may know (feel) youre right.

  Just consider, JW hang their whole life on the future, if they have family, their future is to be with family in the paradise. Anything that endangers this hope is like a catastrophy for them. The worst that can happen to a JW according to their perspective, is that a loving family member (spouse(child) leaves the truth and will therefore die in A.

  Its still real for her, so she will put up a strong defense in order to keep her view, that she cherished for so many years. because, be honest, after knocking down the WTS, often there is nothing left, you have to learn to enjoy life now !! This is a big change, it does not come overnight.

  I would suggest, instead of destroying the building of the WTS, try to built up a life for her around the presence, by being there for her, show her your love and attention. Built up real spirituality, help her to think for herself. Time and again, uncover fallacies in WTS reasoning.

  Every situation is different, but thats the way I try to get to my wife, and sometimes I see progress, but expect also fallbacks. Patinece is needed, and often you may have to just swallow certain nonsense you hear at the meeting of with other JW.

  Wish you the very best, and dont forget this place here, mayn share similar expereinces, and it helps!!

  inbetween
• 

  watersprout

  I'm glad to hear you had a good holiday, shame about the rubbish you came back to...I was like you 18 months ago, Carrot was very opposed to my beliefs that the org was a crazy cult...The rows we had were scary! I learnt to keep my mouth shut and if Carrot wanted to talk about something i would stay calm and listen to his viewpoint...Even though inside, my blood was boiling...Drop out subtle hints about the org [just something little to get her thinking], entice your wife to stay home on meeting nights by cooking her a lovely dinner...Teach your kids about life in the real world...Let them take part in after school clubs...But most of all be loving and patient...The cult personality is a nasty thing, but once her mind starts to unravel you will need to be there to carry her through it...Make sure your home is a happy and peaceful place to be...The way to get her out is to show love...Anger and frustration will only push her back in.

  When your wife comes back from the meetings have a big smile on your face and a drink ready for her...Trust me it worked with Carrot...

  Peace and light to you and your family