At what point did you realize JW's were a Cult? (page 18)

Mickey mouse

When I realised I couldn't leave.

It's a shame this thread has been derailed. Maybe one day the penny will drop.

debator

Hi misery

Thank you for your detailed replies.

As you can see from above, most people on here equate an authority structure with high control which I simply don't. Jesus makes it clear we will have kings and priests over us after Armageddon and shepherds now and for me that simply means we have to get used to allowing for that structure which starts with Jehovah and then through his son Jesus and then through those Jesus gives authority too.

Titus 2:15
These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

I agree with the witnesses that under Bible principle that higher education shouldn't be emphasised. The Bible is very clear that book learning of worldly knowledge serves no purpose in God's kingdom so they are right to warn us but leave it to personal conscience. That Jesus was a carpenter and the apostles he chose doing equally menial jobs of their day shows this principle, in action.

James 2:5
Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him?

God's moral code clearly encompasses more than just sexual immorality.

I absolutely do not think have strict moral laws causes people to sin! it's like saying that by making the tree forbidden in the Garden of Eden Jehovah made Eve sin.

We make a personal choice to go against the Bible's moral laws on sexual immorality, lying, stealing, idolatry, hurting others etc. It is the simple concept of freewill that we choose to do what is bad despite knowing it is wrong. If you don't know something is wrong you will do it out of ignorance which is what does lay blame on the person who doesn't teach them it is wrong.

Romans 3:20
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

isaacaustin

Sorry -bator, but none of the verses above support the cultic authority structure of the WT.

Black Sheep

I knew my Dad had raised me in a cult when I showed him the the article "What is Truth" in the first Watchtower, where it says that a truth from Satan was equal value to a truth from God, and he agreed with it.

The old goat would sell his soul to the Devil to protect his church.

A few days later he recited John 20:28 without the 'and'. Pure evil dressed as a saint.

What makes a man, who prides himself on his honesty, try to deceive his son into reading scriptures missing out words to alter the meaning to suit his religious leader's Christology? Do you have an answer for that, Debator?

debator

Hi black sheep

You would have show me the full article to see what point that particular watchtower was making from the bible.

Your story is a weird one since the NWT puts the "and" there?

NWT john 20: 28 In answer Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God!”

as does the NIV

John 20:28 (New International Version)

28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

We do reference other Bibles occasionally but on the whole we use the NWT which uses the "And"

Your point remains unclear?

isaacaustin

Ren/Debator:

Not "We", as you are obviously not a JW...but simply pro-JW in your own eyes. You should more accurately have said "The JEhovahs Witnesses and myself reference..." since you are not part of the cult, except in your own mind.

wannabefree

Mickey Mouse ... me too.

I wasn't looking to disprove JW teaching, but when it happened, and I came to the realization that the ultimate control to keep me were relationships with my own children and that there was no way a person could leave with dignity, then I came to realize it was a cult.

isaacaustin

You know it is a cult when all dissention/disagreement/injustice is the fault of the person, not the org. Members have to justify by either saying that they are not privy to the details (which equally begs the question of how they know the org is innocent) or that if the org saw fit to do as they did there must be a reason.

designs

Isaac-

Think of the oddity. In 1995 when the Society changed their definition of 'Generation' if you dug in your heels and said 'No I'm sticking with the Society's pre 1995 definition' and openly made a point of it at meetings you would be censored (not called on) and be counseled by two Elders. If you made the point that your pre 1995 understanding was something you would not give up you would then be Reproved.

Billen76

Hi Debator

Actually, the concept explained in the bible is that every christian is King and Priest and their body is to be their temple. It is very amazing that Jehovahs Witnesses can get those writings to mean, that they are to be submissive under a theocratic dictatorship. In fact, the bible explains the exact opposite, namely that we ALL are Kings and Priests, not over others but over our own lifes, bowing only to Christ in Heaven. The Christian body as a Kingdom where all a kings and priests. How can that point be missed!?

Tit. 2:15 only talks about speaking with authority, when talking about doing good deeds. Read Titus in full, then the meaning is clear. (btw. The letters to Timotheus to Titus, does not exist in Codex Vaticanus)

James 2 1-13 talks about not showing partiality between rich and poor and not judging people according to law - not to oppress any by any standard. The conclusion is:

James 2:12,13 "So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment."

The base christianity is that salvation comes through faith, not through actions. And faith means you have to BELIEVE that Christ will work through you and that you do not need the letter of a law to show love. Because love comes from within and not from the written letters. Belief, and you are forgiven for your sins, that is described by the letters of the law. Thus God gives salvation through grace and encourages the christian through inspired words to do good deeds toward our neighbour. And the christian is king and priest to minister his faith and how it is expressed in the world.

It makes a world of difference between what I call christian religion and what must be named cultish religion. Christian religion inspires the believer to gain perspective of their life and deal with fear, personal responsebility and freedom, while the cultish religion seeks to use religious writings to etablish a system of power and justify dictators by empowering them with a God-given right.

In "real life" things usually get mixed somewhat between the two described polarities here, as people tend to want to give their own oppinions the power of being Gods will, superceeding "the others" who is merely speaking "human words". So when I judge an Organisation to be a cult, it is mainly based upon that the Organisation leans heavily towards the cultish polarity in its perception of God.

At what point did you realize JW's were a Cult?

Share this