Hi Aguest
Greetings, dear Debator, and again, peace to you!
You have your own doctrine and ideas on the bible.
They're not mine, dear one. They're from the One whom the WTBTS FDS "leaders" claim they receive theirs. Funny thing... and something most don't know... they get some from Mr. Russell... but a LOT from McClintock and Strong's multi-volume cyclopedia, which was written back in the 1800s... and which I just happen to have an entire copy of the set. My husband and I "miraculously" came across it in a used bookstore once. It was expensive, but WELL worth it. You have NO idea how your leaders have compiled their "knowledge"... and from what source(s). My Source, though, is Christ... and no other.
Okay, now that we've gotten that out of the way... your position is absolutely refuted in ONE verse - 1 Corinthians 15:25, which states:
"For he must rule as kinguntilGod has put all enemies under his feet." 1 Corinthians 15:25
NOT, he WILL rule as king AFTER God has put all enemies under his feet. But because I totally understand your conviction in what the WTBTS teaches (I was once "with" you), my Lord had directed me to expound and explain further, so that if you TRULY want to understand this truth, you may have ground to do so. To that end:
Revelation shows specific things happen at specific times and the Fulness of completion clearly doesn't happen until this point.
You sound certain... and I think you think you are. But let's look at what you've got first, and then we'll address what the Revelation actually "shows." Will that work? Thank you!
Psalms you quote supports this. Psalm 110:1-3: Jehovah says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet. Jehovah will extend your mighty scepter from Zion; you will rule in the midst of your enemies.
You misunderstand these scriptures, dear one, because those who teach you misunderstand them. True, my Lord DID sit down at the right hand of God... from where he began RULING. That he SAT DOWN... meant he began ruling. Let me explain: when a monarch in put into office, there in an inauguration (which I already discussed above)... the culmination of which is when such monarch SITS... on the throne. In so SITTING... AUTHORITY is now granted to him/her.
You misunderstanding this, however, because of the false teaching of your leaders as regards this "sitting." You see, they confuse him... with MICHAEL... the Arkangel... who STANDS UP... who IS standing... on behalf of the sons of Israel. Christ, however, is NOT Michael. Michael is one of the angels of the Ark (of the Covenant)... whose is called God's "trumpet"... because HIS voice... is like a trumpet. He is the one who ANNOUNCES my Lord's arrival... just as the arrival of ANY king is heralded with trumpets. My Lord's voice, however, is similar to the Father's - as of "many waters." Here, let me show you:
First, John hears a voice "like that of a trumpet":
"By inspiration I came to be in the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a strong voice like that of a trumpet, saying: “What you see write in a scroll and send it to the seven congregations, in Eph´e·sus and in Smyr´na and in Per´ga·mum and in Thy·a·ti´ra and in Sar´dis and in Philadelphia and in La·o·di·ce´a.” Revelation 1:10, 11
When he turns around to see who is speaking, however, he sees a DIFFERENT person than the one with the trumpet voice. He SEES... one whose voice was "as the sound of many waters":
"And I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me, and, having turned, I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands someone like a son of man, clothed with a garment that reached down to the feet, and girded at the breasts with a golden girdle. Moreover, his head and his hair were white as white wool, as snow, and his eyes as a fiery flame; and his feet were like fine copper when glowing in a furnace; and his voice was as the sound of many waters."Revelation 1:12-15
This SECOND person... is Christ. How do we KNOW? Because Daniel ALSO describes him... HE refers to Michael (so he ISN'T Michael!)... and Daniels calls him "my Lord":
"I also proceeded to raise my eyes and see, and here was a certain man clothed in linen, with his hips girded with gold of U´phaz. And his body was like chrys´o·lite, and his face like the appearance of lightning, and his eyes like fiery torches, and his arms and the place of his feet were like the sight of burnished copper, and the sound of his words was like the sound of a crowd. And I saw, I Daniel by myself, the appearance; but as for the men that happened to be with me, they did not see the appearance. However, there was a great trembling that fell upon them, so that they went running away in hiding themselves."
On seeing my Lord, Daniel lost control of his bodily functions... and then fainted dead away:
"And I—I was left remaining by myself, so that I saw this great appearance. And there was left remaining in me no power, and my own dignity became changed upon me to ruination, and I retained no power. And I began hearing the sound of his words; and while I was hearing the sound of his words, I myself also happened to be fast asleep upon my face, with my face to the earth."
But my Lord woke Daniel up, helped him up, and told him to stand up:
"And, look! there was a hand that touched me, and it gradually stirred me up to [get] upon my knees and the palms of my hands. And he proceeded to say to me: 'O Daniel, you very desirable man, have understanding in the words that I am speaking to you, and stand up where you were standing, for now I have been sent to you.' And when he spoke with me this word, I did stand up, shivering."
And when Daniel stood full up, my Lord said to him:
" And he went on to say to me: “Do not be afraid, O Daniel, for from the first day that you gave your heart to understanding and humbling yourself before your God your words have been heard, andI myself have come because of your words. But the prince of the royal realm of Persia was standing in opposition to me for twenty-one days, and, look! Mi´cha·el, one of the foremost princes, came to help me; and I, for my part, remained there beside the kings of Persia. And I have come to cause you to discern what will befall your people in the final part of the days, because it is a vision yet for the days [to come].”
Now, of course, your leaders teach that this was the angel Gabriel. It was not. First, he has the same description as was seen by John. But Daniel would not have called Gabriel "my Lord," which he does next. And even if he did, Gabriel would have CORRECTED him... as Michael did when giving John the Revelation:
" Now when he spoke with me words like these, I had set my face to the earth and had become speechless. And, look! one similar to the likeness of the sons of mankind was touching my lips, and I began to open my mouth and speak and say to the one who was standing in front of me: “O my lord, because of the appearance my convulsions were turned within me, and I did not retain any power. So how was the servant of this my lord able to speak with this my lord?"
What did Daniel mean? The account tells us: although GABRIEL (the one with the "likeness of the sons of mankind" - Daniel 8:16, 17 - who was also there), touched Daniel's lips so that his MOUTH became clean... so that he could SPEAK to my Lord, the "one who was standing in front of [him]"... Daniel was confused because he had SOILED himself! So, he asked my Lord, "Look! I am UNCLEAN because I lost control of my bodily functions! Given the LAW... how is that I am able to speak with YOU... Lord?? And angel, sure. But YOU??? While I am sitting in crap??"
So, the One that Daniel saw... who REFERRED to Michael... is the same One that JOHN saw! For Daniel, my Lord appeared with Gabriel; however, my Lord appeard to JOHN... with Michael! How do we KNOW? The account TELLS us:
Michael as a voice like a trumpet. My Lord has a voice like many waters... or a crowd. So, JOHN appears to have written, at John 4:1:
"After these things (meaning, after my Lord has spoken to him as to the message to the seven angels)... I saw, and, look! an opened door in heaven, and the first voice that I heard was as of atrumpet, speaking with me, saying: “Come on up here, and I shall show you the things that must take place.”
But that is INACCURATE. The CORRECT rendering of this verse is:
"After these things (meaning, after my Lord has spoken to him as to the message to the seven angels)... I saw, and, look! an opened door in heaven, and the first voice that I heardthat was as of atrumpet was speaking with me, saying: “Come on up here, and I shall show you the things that must take place.”
What does this mean? It means exactly what John wrote:
"A revelation by [Jesus] Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him... to his slave John..."
John first hears Michael, the one whose voice is like a trumpet. When he turns around to see who is speaking, he sees my Lord, and his, Christ, whose voice is like many waters. My Lord gives him the message to the seven angels and when he is DONE... MICHAEL returns... and STARTS the "revelation"!
What does all of this mean? It means... that Michael's "standing up"... has absolutely NOTHING to do with my Lord's beginning to rule from the right hand of the Father. He rules... BY sitting down on the throne! Michael stands UP... when he BATTLES... with the OTHER angel of the Ark... Beli'Jah'el... or Satan. He... was the OTHER "cherub that is covering"... the Ark [of the Covenant].
The ruling doesn't start until after Satan goes down to earth (footstool)
Yes! Satan being cast out was the FIRST order of the rulership. BUT... that occurred... in 30CE!!! It did not wait until 1914! Let's see:
"And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was caught away to God and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and sixty days. Andwar broke out in heaven: Mi´cha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.
"And I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God! And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death. On this account be glad, YOU heavens and YOU who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to YOU, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.”
"Now when the dragon saw that it was hurled down to the earth, it persecuted the woman that gave birth to the male child. But the two wings of the great eagle were given the woman, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place; there is where she is fed for a time and times and half a time away from the face of the serpent. And the serpent disgorged water like a river from its mouth after the woman, to cause her to be drowned by the river. But the earth came to the woman’s help, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the river that the dragon disgorged from its mouth. And the dragon grew wrathful at the woman, and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her seed, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness to [Jesus[." Revelation 12:5-17
How do we KNOW then this occurred? Because this waging of war by Satan against the seed started... when Satan's agents, which included Saul of Tarsus at one time... began persecuting, indeed, putting to death... ALL who had the work of bearing witness to my Lord. And it has continued to this day.
Does Michael have angels? He certainly does. Like Satan, is has authority over things, too. However, my Lord has ALL authority. Spirit beings have ranks and groups, dear one. "Arkangel" does not mean "chief angel," although Michael IS a chief... over myriads. Satan (Belial)... was, too. And his armies were loyal to HIM. But Christ... is not an angel, dear one. He has NEVER been an angel... ark, chief, or otherwise. He is... a SON.
and until then Jesus is on the righthand of Jehovah his father.
He is at my Father's right hand, dear one... and ruling FROM that position even now. Has been, since inaugurated. Which I showed you from your own Bible version.
Hebrews confirms this Hebrews 10:12-13 (New International Version) But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. Jesus waited from his sacrifice until his enemies became a footstool.
Waiting for his enemies to be put as a footstool, yes. Waiting to RULE... no... and this TRUTH is summed up in ONE verse, which you haven't seemed to come across in your Bible reading... or WT study:
"For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet." 1 Corinthians 15:25
Three scriptures confirming the sequence of events what more do you want?
The sequence to be depicted accurately... which is it not. Is that too much to ask, indeed from those who claim to BE... let alone HAVE... the "truth"? I don't think so.
Again, I bid you peace!
A slave of Christ,
SA
