Soldiers of Jah (page 10)

PSacramento

Tec, then that's the Lord's fault for not providing enough info to not make him looked like a crazed maniac.

One can argue that, that was the point of sending Jesus ( besides that other reason ;) ).

Jesus cleared up many things in regards to waht the Jews took as "God's Word/Law", things about Food, the Sabbath, how to deal with brothers that are "outcasts", how to deal with enemies, etc.

When Peter asked how many times he was suppose to forgive someone that did wronged him, what did Jesus say?

Jesus was, of course, far ahead of his time, he understood the only thing that breaks the circle of violence and hate and thatis love and forgiveness, He understood that it is better for US and others to forgive and love than to hold on to our hate and anger.

Too bad we still haven't learned that lesson.

THE GLADIATOR

All history books are full of accounts of bloodshed, torture and selfish acts by mankind. The history of the 20th century is no better. Recently, Bush and Blair both said that God told them to attack Iraq.

Man has invented many gods and used them as scapegoats for their barbaric actions. They have written many Holy books and claimed they were inspired to write them. Obviously we need to look beyond these self serving history books, if we are to make progress in our search for answers to the mystery of the universe.

There are spiritual paths that seek to explain the hidden forces behind mankinds actions. They don't insist that we accept the notion of a man styled deity shouting out instructions from the sky. Until we get past that man made concept of a god, debates like this will continue for infinitem.

donny

It basically comes down to this. In order to accept and try to make logic out of the terrible things God does in the Bible, you have to first accept that God made us, therefore he can do whatever he wishes to his creation. Once you accept that concept, you can explain just about anything.

The stange part is if any of this logic was applied to a mortal being, we would consider them to be at the pinnacle of evil.

Humans can be an amusing study.

PSacramento

Gladiator,

Well said.

Bruce Lee has a nice saying:

"It is like a finger, pointing the way to the moon, don't concentrate on the finger or you miss all the heavenly glory".

The finger being the "holy books" and the moon being God in this case.

snowbird

The stange part is if any of this logic was applied to a mortal being ...

Therein lies the crux of the matter.

The God of the Bible is immortal, having seen the worst and the best.

There's no comparison between Him and us who are mere mortals.

Syl

believingxjw

PSacramento,

"I don't think anyone asked Jesus about any of that stuff and I don't recall him commenting on it.

We have what Jesus said - Love they enemy for anyone can love a brother, what is the big deal in that? I say love your enemy- and if we take him as the Word of God then we have to see it as either a change from God ( it wasn't), Jesus speaking for himself only ( he wasn't) or Jesus clearing up what He viewed as a incorrect view of what God wants ( which is what he did)."

Yet Jesus said this, "And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all."

And this, "but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all."

Jesus was not as you said, "clearing up what He viewed as a incorrect view of what God wants ( which is what he did)." No, he confirmed it. Neither Jesus nor God, love, love and love again regardless of what people do. That, imo, is not the full picture. There are consequences when people do not love their fellow and consequences for religious leaders who hypocritically and harshly insist on ruling over others.

PSacramento

Yet Jesus said this, "And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all."

And this, "but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all."

Jesus was not as you said, "clearing up what He viewed as a incorrect view of what God wants ( which is what he did)." No, he confirmed it. Neither Jesus nor God, love, love and love again regardless of what people do. That is, imo, is not the full picture only a part of it. There are consequences when people do not love their fellow and consequences for religious leaders who hypocritically and harshly insist on ruling over others.

Ok, Jesus said what?

That in the time of Noah people were living their lives and a flood came and killed them? Yes, that is what he said.

That when Lot left Soddom, it was destroed? Yes, because not even ONE person was found righteous ( remember that part?).

Jesus confirmed that people died in a flood because they didn't listen and that the unrightous were destroyed because, well, not even one of them was rightous.

I don't think anyone is arguing that there are NO CONSEQUENCES to leading a life that is unrighteous and that there are no conequences for those the feel they have the right to dictate over others.

I don't recall Jesus saying that, " when we meet the enemy on the battlefield, kill them with no mercy, slaughter them and rape and pilage their village, burn their homes, kick their dogs and flood their houses with junk mail !!"

tec

I guess that depends on how you're looking. There seem to be quite a fair amount of people who don't see him like this at all. - Tammy

Ad populum fallacy. - MadSweeney

All I meant is that some people can see him clearly, as a God of love and not a monster. So it is possible. But too many people are hung up on the OT, and fail to understand that we have to look to Christ, since He came to show us his Father (as well as show us the way to his Father). Is it God's fault that people don't understand or ignore this? I don't see how it can be since some people do understand. Or is it man's fault, for being blind and for teaching one another falsely?

Tammy

tec

I don't recall Jesus saying that, " when we meet the enemy on the battlefield, kill them with no mercy, slaughter them and rape and pilage their village, burn their homes, kick their dogs and flood their houses with junk mail !!"

I am in complete agreement with you here, PSac. I think Believing is in agreement with this also, though. I don't think that is what he was arguing.

Tammy

PSacramento

I think you make a point that gets lost way to often Tammy:

But too many people are hung up on the OT, and fail to understand that we have to look to Christ, since He came to show us his Father (as well as show us the way to his Father). Is it God's fault that people don't understand or ignore this?

Jesus is the WORD of God, as such, when he speaks, God speaks, whe we see Jesus and hear him, we hear God.

Its not a question of the NT superseeding the OT, it's simply that Jesus is God REVEALED to US, not via Man or via Prophets, but Via His very WORD.

God's true wants and desires and hopes of US is revealed in Jesus and in his teachings, Jesus SUPERSEEDS everything before him, written or other wise, that is why Jesus coudl say that "no man has seen God except the Son", because never had God truly revealed himself DIRECTLY to man till Jesus came.

Soldiers of Jah

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