by sabastious 54 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I think Deputy Dog was thinking you meant "Wisdom of Jesus son of Sirach"...
That's Sirach. A different book.
Oh I gave up on Christianity a while back. I'm gonna just sit back and watch the thread now
Well, for a non-Christian, you started a good thread on a Christian subject. Pull up a chair and grab a .
BTS
Sab, when you came out of the Watchtower, did you ask God to direct you to the real truth? Did you approach the Bible with an open mind, thinking that maybe there WAS truth to be found there?
Sab, when you came out of the Watchtower, did you ask God to direct you to the real truth? Did you approach the Bible with an open mind, thinking that maybe there WAS truth to be found there?
When I came out of the WT, I didn't know if God existed and became an agnostic.
Now I hold these simple truths:
Humans were created and that Creator has a purpose. Everything else is up to interpretation and SHOULD NOT be used to pass judgement.
That's all folks
-Sab
I agree on the passing judgement part, and I definitely need to work on that. It's the old WT leftovers, you know?
But I think if you gave Jesus a chance, you would see the offer that is extended to us and how it can affect our life now. If you prayed for the Holy Spirit and did some deeper Bible study, I think you would at the very least come away with a different understanding.
But I think if you gave Jesus a chance
I am giving him a chance. I believe that our lives have a purpose through our creator. I am using the tools God (which is Jesus to you) gave me to effect this world. I believe that is the biggest part of our purpose is that we do the best with what we've got.
-Sab
we do the best with what we've got.
I've got no disagreement with you there, Sab, and you know that we are buddies and I TOTALLY respect your views!
One thing though is that Jesus said you have to ask HIM. The crazy thing is that we had all these things we had to DO to get salvation while we were JWs. But Jesus only said, "Ask and it will be given to you." But it can't be given to someone that doesn't ask.
One thing though is that Jesus said you have to ask HIM.
This is what you believe God asks of you in the Bible. That's where we differ. I don't believe in the Bible's divinity (at least the way most Christians do). The Bible says we are lacking. I do not believe this. I think God gave us what we need when we are born to do what is right, therefore nothing further is required of us; other than to do the best with what we've got.
-Sab
Dan and Burn
I would suggest you take a long look at the Council of Trent and Church history.
The Limbo of the Fathers (limbus patrum) was the abode of people who, before Jesus' Resurrection, had died in the friendship of God, but had to wait for Christ to open heaven's gates.
According to Origen, considered to be the greatest Christian theologian (before he joined the doctors), said, "After death, I think the saints go to Paradise, a place of teaching, a school of the spirits, in which everything they saw on Earth will be made clear to them. Those who were pure in heart will progress more rapidly, reaching the kingdom of heaven by definite steps or degrees." Hell, according to the Pistis Sophia (an early Christian writing) (Leiden: Brill, 1978), is what lies in the opposite direction from that of progress, a state of inert and helpless being.
Most of the early Christian writings found in non-canonical texts clearly support the idea that the spirits of men continue on after death. Many of them are Gnostic writings, which contain many Christian teachings and many non-Christian teachings. Other writings that are more orthodox, such as the Coptics, also indicate life immediately after death."Beyond the veil are the heavens," says one (N. Sed, Revue des Etudes Juives 124 (1965): 39) and thus it is that not only, in the words of one scholar, "is God rendered invisible by the impenetrable veil of light that surrounds him," so are the realms that separate us from those who have passed on. These early teachings are also mirrored in near death experiences of our own day. People often report a brilliant white light through which they pass before seeing loved ones. Having researched many of these stories, they are simply too much alike regardless of culture and religion.
Years ago, when I took theology courses, we studied the issue of whether people had spirits. Our professor conceded the issue could be argued either way and he went through all the variations of word translations. In the end, though, the doctrine that people had spirits got the overwhelming nod. The arguments are just superior.
Jehovah's Witnesses are probably forbidden from researching things like near death experiences, but the bottom line is just too conclusive. "But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord." (2 Cor. 3:18) It's difficult to believe that man can make all these changes in this life. First, the scripture says "we all" (meaning all of us) are changed into the same image as Christ (not Adam) step by step. It's tough to do that here on present day Earth. And Acts 23:8 states: "For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both." If the meaning of the word is "breath" it wouldn't make sense, as the Sadducees admitted breath, but not spirit. Acts 7:59 reports: "And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." If the meaning was "breath," it wouldn't make much sense.
There are many more, but the WTS is just wrong on this issue.
