by Yizuman 226 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
DD,
I think LWT was basically expressing the view that many seem to have based on what they are taught, not in terms of what scripture says.
I think his point was that God created humans that were weak ( the failed the test out of weakness) and God knew they were gonna fail and even knowing that, is going to alow them to "burn in hellfire".
Or something like that.
DD:
That's the POV of someone who either thinks they are smarter than God and/or who hopes to escape his wrath.
Even though Steven and I may see this a little differently we both would quote scripture to make our points. If leavingwt was going to be honest he would at least mock the scripture since he attributes these words to God.
Please explain how I'm being dishonest.
You'll also note that I amended my explanation for the benefit of Calvinists. In that scenario, there was no "test". God simply chose the folks who would be spared from the flames of Hell.
I don't think I'm smarter than your God. Your God is a concept that doesn't make sense to me. I could fake belief, but I think you'll agree that He would see through that.
Sheol
This word is used in the Old Testament for the place of the dead . . . In the later Jewish literature we meet with the idea of divisions within Sheol for the wicked and the righteous, in which each experiences a foretaste of his final destiny . . .(The New Bible Dictionary, J.D. Douglas, editor, Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1962, 518)
The Hebrew word designating the unseen abode of the dead; a neutral word, presupposing neither misery nor happiness.
(Augustus H. Strong, Systematic Theology, Westwood, NJ: Fleming H. Revell, 1907, 994)
While the word Sheol, does not pointedly refer to a definitive doctrine of endless retribution, but rather to a shadowy existence beyond the grave, it nevertheless reflects the belief in a future and continued existence.
(Merrill C. Tenney, Pictorial Bible Dictionary, Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, rev. ed., 1967, 346)
Hades
The region of departed spirits of the lost (but including the blessed dead in periods preceding the Ascension of Christ) . . . It corresponds to Sheol in the O.T. IN the KJV . . . it has unhappily been rendered "Hell," e.g., Ps. 16:10; or "the grace," e.g., Gen. 37:35 . . . It never denotes the grave, nor is it the permanent region of the lost; in point of time it is, for such, intermediate between decease and the doom of Gehenna. For the condition, see Luke 16:23-31.(W.E. Vine, An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, Old Tappan, NJ: Fleming H. Revell, 1940; under "Hades")
. . . the nether world, the realm of the dead . . . In the Septuagint the Hebrew Sheol is almost always rendered by this word . . . the infernal regions, a dark and dismal place . . . the common receptacle of disembodied spirits.
(Joseph Thayer, Greek-English Lexicon of the NT, 11)
Gehenna / Hell / The Lake of Fire
. . . It is the loss of all good . . . and the misery of an evil conscience banished from God and from the society of the holy, and dwelling under God's positive curse forever . . . The decisive and controlling element is not the outward, but the inward . . . The figurative language of Scripture is a miniature representation of what cannot be fully described in words . . . the unholiness and separation from God of a guilty and accusing conscience, of which fire and brimstone are symbols . . . the future punishment of the wicked is not annihilation . . . the wicked enter at death upon a state of conscious suffering which the resurrection and the judgment only augment and render permanent.(Augustus H. Strong, Systematic Theology, Westwood, NJ: Fleming H. Revell, 1907, 1033-1036)
Hell Fire Question.
Would it actually be possible, according to God's laws, to burn someone forever?
Answer.
The only way the concious unrighteous could burn for all eternity is,
if they were granted Eternal Life (first) - and the bible clearly states
that Eternal Life is ONLY granted to the Righteous who accept Jesus
as Lord. John3:16 1Tim6:15-16
This is the best explanation I've ever read by some brainy person on JWN!
C
Clarity - that is a great answer!
Tammy
You all should read this book from Stewart Salmond
leavingwt
Please explain how I'm being dishonest.
You'll also note that I amended my explanation for the benefit of Calvinists. In that scenario, there was no "test". God simply chose the folks who would be spared from the flames of Hell.
Actuaully that's where you tried to make it personal.
Please don't backpedal on my account. They aren't MY words you tried to put in God's mouth, nor are they the words of any creed that I'm aware of.
Theologians have wrestled with this topic for centuries, I don't think many, if any, ever intended to make light of the plight of the condemded.
Most on this thread seem to deny the nature of the offence of sin, you characterize it as a little or one time ordeal, not taking into account the eternal aspect, as if the condemned ever cease from their sinning. My guess is this is why Russell and the WT prefer annihilation.
God does not throw people into hell at a mere whim. You do! Because of the choice YOU make, no one else.
So, can I exercise my free will and choose not love God, and also choose not to go to hell?
Or are those choices mutually exclusive?
If they are mutually exclusive, why? Who determined that they are?
'Theologians have wrestled with this topic for centuries'. Exactly, what a pity. It is the Achilles tendon of Western Christianity.
clarity
Answer.
The only way the concious unrighteous could burn for all eternity is,
if they were granted Eternal Life (first) - and the bible clearly states
that Eternal Life is ONLY granted to the Righteous who accept Jesus
as Lord. John3:16 1Tim6:15-16
That is the only way eternal life could be seen as a gift.
For the unbeliever it is seen as eternal death (punishment). see second death Rev 2:11, 20:6, 20:14, 21:8
