Another 144,000 Question

by Cold Steel 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    Are you a JW?

    I am not, dear Moomanchu (peace to you!). I was, however. Praise JAH... I was set free... so that I no longer NEED to be
    "under men in charge"! For I am no longer a "babe." Which I was when I was with them. My Lord himself started teaching me, however, when I was still a bit of a babe, and when the time my Father allotted arrived... he called me out, thus setting me FREE. Galatians 4:1-8; 1 Corinthians 13:11; Matthew 11:25; John 10:32, 36;

    If you are an "annointed one" you get tested 1X .

    I m not sure what you mean...

    Your reward is to be an immortal spirit being ruling with Christ as king and priest in heaven .

    Actually, this is incorrect, and now I understand your previous comment... which is also incorrect. An immortal spirit being, yes. Ruling Christ as a king and priest, yes. In heaven... no. We will rule UPON the earth. New Jerusalem... which city we are... will come down OUT of heaven, to be UPON the earth (which is how Gog/Magog "come against" us). We only go to heaven for the marriage to our Lord, which takes places in the spirit realm. But after we "inherit" the earth... the physical realm... and rule upon that part of it that is the earth (for the physical realm is far more vast than our puny earth)... for 1,000 years. OUR part lasts for 1,000 years. His lasts... forever.

    As for being "tested"... the only one who tests us is the Adversary. He is the one who made the challenge as to ALL of earthling man, you and me included, which is... "skin in behalf of skin and ALL that a man has he WILL give in behalf of his soul [his flesh]." It is HE that says we WILL curse God... indeed, give our eternal lives in exchange for relief... as soon as things get difficult. HE is the one who challenged US... by saying that all the Most Holy One of Israel had to do was "remove the hedge" that He places around us... and we WILL crumble. WE... have the PRIVILEGE... of responding to that challenge... ourselves... individually.

    If you are an "other sheep" you get tested 2X .

    This is incorrect. First, the "other sheep" ALSO rule as kings and priests WITH the 144,000. By means of the removal of the Law Covenant, we become ONE flock... with ONE shepherd. So that just as WE hear, listen to, and follow Christ's voice, so too, those from among the nations hear, listen to, and follow his voice... and no one else's. Unlike the 144,000... which are taken ONLY from among the sons of Israel, the great crowd is taken from EVERY nation, tribe, tongue and people... and long WITH those chosen and sealed from among the sons of Israel... rule as kings and priests. These, TOO, wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb... which is HOW they can "render sacred service [God's] temple... day AND night." Only priests can render SACRED service. John 10:1-5, 16, 27; Revelation 5:9, 10; Revelation 7:4, 9, 14, 15

    Second, your leaders teach that there is a resurrection that takes place and folks get another chance during the 1,000 year reign. But your leaders are in grave error. They neither know the truth regarding the resurrection... who it applies to... when... and for what purpose. But I am permitted to share the truth regarding these things with you:

    There are TWO resurrections.

    1. The "first" resurrection takes place just AFTER the end of the tribulation, when my Lord returns... BEFORE Satan is abyssed and BEFORE the 1,000-year reign of Christ with his brothers begins. Matthew 24:29-31; Revelation 20:1-6

    At THAT time, when my Lord returns, he gathers his chosen ones... those who have died and those who have NOT died. Those who have died are resurrected... AT THE SAME TIME as those who have NOT died... are changed... into spirit bodies. They ALL receive the "white robe"... the SPIRIT body that is clean and without corruption. This takes place AT ONE TIME... so that "a nation [Israel] is BORN... in ONE DAY." NONE have been resurrected yet, contrary to the false teaching of your leaders that the resurrection began in 1914 and ones go to heaven right after they die. That is a LIE. Those who died in union with Christ do NOT precede those who have NOT died... and those who have NOT died do NOT precede those who HAVE died. They are resurrected or changed at the same time... so that we meet the Lord... TOGETHER. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

    This is the FULFILLMENT of my Lord's words:

    “I am the resurrection and the life. He that exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; and everyone that is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all." John 11:25, 26

    But that is only with reference to those WHO EXERCISE FAITH in him.

    2. The "second" resurrectiontakes place AFTER the 1,000 years have ended... AND after Gog, Magog... and Satan... have been destroyed. Revelation 20:5-15 It is for those who did NOT exercise faith in Christ, directly, but may have done good to his brothers during their life in the flesh... but died. THAT... is "Judgement Day." This is the resurrection that Israel looked forward to... because the FIRST resurrection had not been instituted, yet. That one (the first) was instituted by Christ. This (the second) was the one taught by Moses. This even occurs this way:

    a. After Christ and his brothers have "ruled" for 1,000 years, my Lord hands the kingdom BACK over to the Father. Because HE (the Father) is the One who will judge... the living and the dead. Thus, He sits down on HIS throne (which SITTING denotes RULING - which is another way we KNOW that Christ IS ruling... because he SAT DOWN at the right hand of the Father!)... and is given two sets of scrolls. Daniel 7:9, 10; Revelation 20:11, 12

    The first set is the "Book of Remembrance" in which the deeds... and sayings... of ALL those resurrected at this time are written, both good AND bad. The second set... is the Lamb's Book... of life. Malachi 3:16; Exodus 32:33; Psalm 69:28, 29; Daniel 12:1

    Since EVERYONE of these who are resurrected have sinned... they would normally be in line for judgment... and thus sentencing, condemnation, and destruction [in the lake of fire]. However, those who have their names written in the Book of LIFE... will have their sins, which are written in the Book of Remembrance COVERED... even blotted OUT. They will receive LIFE. Those whose names are NOT written in the Lamb's Book... will have their sins remain... and so BE judged, sentenced, condemned... and detroyed. THIS is the SECOND resurrection (Revelation 20:5) and is the fulfillment of my Lord's words:

    "... the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment."John 5:28, 29

    Thus, those who are resurrected to JUDGMENT are those upon whom the "second death"... has authority. Revelation 20:6, 15

    The 144,000 are among those who take part in the FIRST resurrection... in addition to, along with the great crowd (which comes out of EVERY nation, including those of Israel who are NOT sealed as part of the 144,000), NEVER die but are CHANGED... and rule with Christ for 1,000 years. 1 Corinthians 15:51-54; Romans 11:25-27

    Who do they rule OVER? The "sheep" who are separated from the "goats" (Gog). That is what their rulership, which lasts for 1,000 years... ENTAILS... AFTER which Satan is loosed from the abyss. "Gog" are those sheep who are CUT OFF (from entry into the Holy City) DURING this period. Matthew 25:31-46; Revelation 20:1-7

    All of this was the whole purpose OF the New Covenant: Israel was SUPPOSED to be the "people for a special possession"... which possession granted them kingship, priesthood, and rulership over the nations. By means of rejecting the very king the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, set up over THEM... they lost that right and privilege... with the exception of 144,000... who God chose and [will] seal[ed]... to keep His promise to Abraham (who was the reason Israel was chosen to begin with). To REPLACE those of Israel who proved unfaithful, God... "turned His attention to the NATIONS... to take out of THEM... a people for His name." Prior to the New Covenant, people of the nations could NEVER have ruled with Israel... because they were UNCLEAN. But... by means of FAITH... in the blood of Christ... such people are CLEANSED (i.e., their "robes" are "washed")... so that they can be TAKEN IN. That is why Revelation 5:9, 10 states:

    "... they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings UPON the earth.”

    The Greek word used by the WTBTS for "over" (as in rule over the earth)... "epi"... does not mean over as in from above... but over as in "upon." The chart in the front cover of the Kingdom Interlinear shows and explains this. They changed it to help support their false claim of TWO hopes... one for life in heaven and another for one on earth... which is a LIE. There is only ONE hope. Ephesians 4:4

    Your reward is same body same earth cept perfect living as a subject to of "the annointed ones".

    It really isn't the "same" body. If it died, it was sown in "corruption" and raised up in "incorruption." So, it is a BETTER body... a SPIRIT body... which can PUT ON flesh... and take off flesh. Just as the angels can do. It is the WHITE "robe"... or clean "outer garment." 1 Corinthians 15:35-49 (with emphasis on verses 44-46).

    me tinks da nointed wons gits da better gig.

    Yes and no. Yes, in that they get to rule as kings and priests with Christ. But this is a VERY weighty matter... because the TRUTH is that NONE of them judge, per se. Like Christ, who turns HIS judging privilege back over to the Father, these... because they are "christ-like"... turn their privilege of judging over to him. They are like Solomon, sure, in that they may mediate issues but they do so in righteousness. So, rather than saying who SHOULD get the baby... they let the parties decided, based on the challenge put before them. But CHRIST judges... in that, during the "separating" of the sheep from the goats... HE chooses whether one is a sheep... or is a goat... based on how they treated even the least one of his brothers.

    It is the RIGHT of such co-rulers to SAY that a certain one did good... or bad... toward him. But we know that we are to FORGIVE... even our enemies. So, while we may speak as to any good done toward us... if we have truly been "subdued" by our Lord, we won't speak as to any bad done to us. Such works are revealed by the person himself or herself... by THEIR words. And it is on THAT basis that our LORD "judges" them... by handing them back over to the Father... to be judged. While your leaders teach that Christ judges... that is incorrect. While he has AUTHORITY to judge... and share that authority with his co-rulers for 1,000 years... he does NOT judge... and thus, neither do we. Because we know that vengeance... belongs to the MOST Holy One of Israel... JAH of Armies.

    It is for this very reason, that he did NOT judge... but exercised faith and LOVE... even to his own death... that my Lord is CALLED "worthy." To open the seals that bring judgment on various factions of creation. It is not the enthusiastic "soldier" that was chosen... nor the "cowardly" one. It is the one who does not WANT to go... but WILL. Thus, the account of Gideon and his 300 men.

    I hope this clarifies for you where your leaders are wrong. They are wrong because (1) they do not know the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, who is the Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... as well as His glorified Holy Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17); and (2) they are not led by such Holy Spirit. So, they lean upon their OWN understanding... indeed, they even call themselves the "truth"... which there is only ONE Truth, Christ (John 14:6; 8:32, 36). They are, therefore, false "christs" and false prophets, whose only vocation is to "mislead, IF POSSIBLE... EVEN the chosen ones." (Matthew 24:24).

    But YOU do not have to be misled. Truly, you, too... can be led by the Holy Spirit... if you are so wishing. All you need to do is exercise FAITH in the voice of the Spirit and Bride... when they say to YOU:

    "Come! Take 'life's water'... FREE!"

    That 'water'... is the holy spirit of God... the "oil of exultation"... and is poured out from the innermost parts of His "cistern"... the Holy One of Israel, His Son and Christ, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH. Through IT... those who belong to God can be led into ALL truth. HE will make your paths straight.

    May YOU hear, then, dear Moomanchu... and get the sense of these things.

    Again, I bid you peace!

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    Bear in mind that The bible calls the 144,000 the first-fruits which indicates more to come. whether it be heavenly or earthly

    This is incorrect, dear Debator (peace to you!). The 144,000 are "first fruits" because Abraham's seed ("from among the sons of Israel") are chosen FIRST. After them, people from EVERY nation, tribe and tongue are chosen. But there is no "heavenly or earthly" for they attain to BOTH. They will be "like the angels," and so "go in and out". They will put on flesh to be in the physical realm... and put it off to be in the spirit realm. Thus, they will go in and out between the two realms. Just as angels have always done.

    If being on a paradise earth was so Bad why did angels come to live on the earth before the flood when it wasn't even a paradise?

    It wasn't bad at all... especially before Adam's error. At that time, they two were one: the "garden" was the spirit realm... ON earth. That is what will occur again: heaven... on earth. And the angels (the Nephilim) didn't come solely for, well, what NVL has posted. It was their attraction to their physical beauty, resulting from the long garment of skin they inherited from Adam (which HE was given to cover his "nakedness"). Genesis 3:21; 6:2. Some spirit beings have an attraction to outward beauty (which was the foundation of the Adversary's demise - Ezekiel 28:17). In order to "know" such women, however, they had to put on flesh such as we have (that eats/drinks physical food, etc). That flesh was most certainly attracted to what NVL posted, as evidenced by the resultant offspring. Genesis 6:4 It usually is.

    My Reply: PLease post the scripture where 144,000 are called the first fruits? They are not. Caught you in another lie Reniaa.

    Far be it from me to support anything the dear Debator has posted (I cannot agree with 99% of his/her posts), but he/she is correct here. Revelation 14:4 refers to such. However, this is only to reference to those who were bought(Revelation 14:4)"from among the sons of Israel" (Revelation 7:4)... versus those who are bought from EVERY nation, tribe, tongue, and people (Revelation 5:9,10).

    BOTH... those of Israel AND those of the nations... were/are "purchased/bought" with the blood of the Lamb. Israel first, then the nations. BOTH, however, will rule... TOGETHER... as kings and priests with Christ. Together, these make up a people "for a special possession."

    I bid you peace!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    Sorry, but no. Flesh and bone that has HUMAN blood (vs. God's blood, which is holy spirit)... cannot do these things. Unlike the spirit body... which is FREE... the physical body is bound. Enslaved. And a slave. To its desires. Thus, it must not only eat and drink (which the spirit body must do, as well)... it must sleep, expel waste, age, get sick... and die. The wonderful thing is that such bodies will no longer exist... except as to Gog. But Gog will not remain forever. Along with Magog... Gog will be brought to their end.

    Ah, "flesh and bone" is not the same as "flesh and blood."

    When Jesus was resurrected, he was flesh and bone, and animated by spirit. He still bears the prints of the nails in his hands and feet, and when he appears to the Jews he will still have his resurrected body.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    What my Lord took to the grave, dear Cold Steel (peace to you!)... was the "long garment of skin" that Adam received AFTER he sinned. That "unclean garment" was replaced by "robes of state"... the clean, white outer garment. My Lord put on flesh... in order to show his disciples that he had indeed been resurrected. Funny thing, though... they did not recognize the vessel he appeared to them in. They recognized... his VOICE.

    My Lord himself said, "The flesh... is of NO USE... at all." Rather, it is the SPIRIT that makes alive. When he appears to the Jews... whether those of today or those of his day in the flesh... neither will recognize him. Those, today, because they never saw him. Those then because, as Isaiah wrote:

    "And he will again startle many nations. Kings will stand speechless in his presence. For they will see what they had not previously been told about; they will understand what they had not heard about." Isaiah 52:15

    What does this mean? It means... that they will see him... as he REALLY is... which is NOT human. Humans... are a little lower than angels, dear one. My Lord... is MUCH more than a mere angel. He is the SON. And so he will come... in GOD's glory... not man's.

    I bid you peace!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    cold steel,

    You clearly need to get your fantasies under control, dude. Go smell a rose or something. That's the only thing that is real in the world we live in. Fantasies are just fantasies. Roses are real. All those long responses to your question are fantasies, too. Ignore them. Find a rose.

    There are two things in life:

    1) bullshit

    2) roses

    Pick the one that is real.

    Farkel

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    Hi, Farkel.

    You know not of what you speak. Religion is fantasy to some, but time will prove it otherwise. If this life had no purpose, there would be no reason to prolong it. It would, to me, be sad to age with that type of thinking.

    I've found that people who think as you do spend no time reading the scriptures -- only commenting on them.

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    My Lord was 27 years old, himself, when he received holy spirit.

    Yikes! He was 30 (unfortunately, I was typing so fast I counted back three years... from age 30... instead of three years... from 30 C.E., when my Lord was 33 and put to death (that spring). He was born in the fall of the 4th year before the Common Era. My sincere apologies!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

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