Is Annihilation of the Unrepentant Wicked Justice?

by Ding 69 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Think About It
    Think About It
    If there is no conscious punishment after death at all (even temporary), then the murderer of over 6,000,000 people receives the same punishment as a thief

    I think that's one of the main points. There is no dividing line between Hilter and the small time thief, liar, fornicator or gay person. The fundamentalists view is that all sinners in their view experience eternal torment in hellfire. So that being the case, you could also look at it as small time sinners receiving the same punishment as a Hitler. Where is the justice in that? Would be worse justice than being burned at the stake over a parking ticket.

    Think About It

  • Ding
    Ding

    Actually, many who believe in hell believe in differing levels of punishment based on statements by Jesus such as:

    Luke 10:13-14: "Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14 But it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you."

    Luke 17:1-2: ""Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. 2 It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin."

    However, if people are annihilated or simply never resurrected, all receive the identical sentence.

    In other words, without some form of conscious punishment after death (whether temporary or everlasting), there is no individualized justice possible.

  • Luo bou to
    Luo bou to

    Please forgive me if I am off topic But I want to take the opportunity to express a thought that puzzles me re everlasting torment. As I understand the term eternal it does not mean unending time but being outside time not subject to time Time being a creation of God had a beginning I can't get my head around a consciousness that is not time based. Being eternal I don't believe it means suffering while you watch the seconds tick by endlessly That would be cruel and not justice

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Hi Ding,

    <<I'm really surprised no one has stepped forward to defend annihilation of the unrepentant wicked as justice>>

    Actually I am surprized when anyone offers to defend eternal torment as being justice for human sin.

    Do you believe a human judge would be equally just in sentencing a person to torture for the rest of his/her natural life as punishment for murder? Please answer this Ding. Why or why not?

    Consider, compared to the God, this would be merciful punishment. I mean how many electric shocks can an organ (like a tongue for example) take before it sensory nerves are deadened and there is no pain experienced. So justice then would require moving along to other body parts. But sadly, pretty soon all body parts would be deadened to pain. Then what further justice could a more merciful than God judge mete out till the person expires? Well, looking back, the Catholic Church could supply some interesting ideas on how to continue to apply divine justice. So far we have only dealt with the surface. There is deeper pain, greater thresholds of divine justice for us to aspire to.

    Why do you think murderers don't want to be judged in a state that has the death penalty?

    God's justice for murders was instituted after the flood. And torture was not the punishment.

    Vander

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Ding

    Your need to believe in afterlife punishment says something about you.

    S

  • Think About It
    Think About It
    Your need to believe in afterlife punishment says something about you.

    I wasn't going to say anything, but since you brought it up I've wondered the same thing.

    p.s. Ding......the scriptures you provide could also be said to go against Jesus words to forgive up to 77 times. What is God more interested in law, punishment & vengence or love, forgiveness & mercy.

    Think About It

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    A Parable

    There were two Jewish brothers. One, was a good family man who tried to be honest and diligent in duty as he struggled to raise his young family. But he unfortunately is arrested and incinerated in a Nazi death camp for the crime of being Jewish. Prior to his arrest he meets a hyper-Calvinist who tells him about a God who planned, out of His unfathonable love, to graciously save about 10% of men; but pre-assigned the remaining 90% of human beings he would create to eternal torture. He could save everybody, but of course....it is His equally unfathonable intention to have the majority of mankind, for His glory, eternally tortured. This is the only "gospel" this Jewish man ever hears and so he says he cannot accept any of this. .....The other brother ended up a wicked serial killer. He was also arrested but just before his death, God opens His eyes, he repents and believes that Jesus died for his sins.

    In the judgment, the second man meets Jesus, who says, "Welcome to paradise".

    To the second brother Jesus says: "You sir will be tormented for all eternity because you failed to respond to the gospel of the grace of God". "I never heard the truth to respond to it" replies the first brother!" "Doesn't matter", shouts Jesus, "this is divine justice at work". And so the second brother enters paradise while the first brother burns forever....along with wife and His children who had just reached the scriptural age of accountability.

    Is this the justice of God? Or is there something wrong with this picture?

    What will happen to those Christians whose failed to show the love of God to others, who brought forth wood, hay and stubble instead of gold, silver and precious jewels? What fire must they pass through; what stripes must they endure? What loss must they suffer for squandering their gifts and talents?

    Vander

  • designs
    designs

    Oh Vander you are now an enemy of the Fundamentalist's Cross, never ask good questions that's the first sin.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Hi Designs,

    Actually, I am merely against the fundamentalist view of hell.

    I am for the cross. But unbeknownst to most fundementalists, it's power reaches, both far back into history and extends into the age to come....where there will be all manner of sins forgiven save one. Christ died for all, and this will be testified to in due time.

    Joseph, (a type of Christ), went into Egypt (type of the world) abandoned by his brothers (Israel) for the salvation of the world. Joseph's identity was hidden from Israel until the proper time. But notice Joseph's forgiveness of his brothers; they meant it for evil, but God meant it for good.

    Even so, blindness in part has happened to Israel....

    But I digress.

  • ProdigalSon
    ProdigalSon

    I've seen enough that compels me to believe that Hitler was hand-picked to do what he did and wasn't much more than a puppet for his Illuminati marionette masters. Among other things, letting the British escape Dunkirk was clearly a move that defied all military logic simply to prolong the war. Other tactical "errors" in direct defiance of his own military advisors that cost Germany a defeat on the Russian front are similarly unexplainable unless he was being controlled by someone else who would have an interest in dragging the war out. None of this excuses him, but there are other things that we just don't know. How deep was his insanity? What lies was he told by the black magicians who got to him at the Thule Society? This guy truly believed that he was Divinely appointed to re-establish the Holy Roman Empire. Even the Watchtower has pointed out his direct ties with the Vatican and his Concordat with the Pope through Franz Von Papen. What "apparitions" was he shown to make him believe that he was doing God's work? How much was he driven in his rage by what was done to Germany's economy by the Treaty of Versailles? It is a well known fact that it was designed not for peace, but to ensure a second world war.

    As much as our human emotions long for it, there is no good that comes out of tit-for-tat vengeance. As Ghandi said, an eye-for-an-eye only leads to a world full of blind people.

    Once again, I think the only way to make sense of this is to consider reincarnation and the laws of karma. If people only get one shot at life and then they're judged, then what Hitler did would require that he suffer some kind of torment for a long long time. Well, what if the millions that he murdered were soon born again under much better circumstances? What if Hitler was quickly reincarnated with the most horrible of afflictions? What if he has been suffering ever since, with some horrible disfigurement or horrifically painful disease? Maybe he's come back a few times and has experienced many of the things he dished out, and will continue to do so until his karma is paid.

    Just my opinion (that took me DECADES to arrive at), but if its really true that what goes around comes around, it MUST carry over to another life, because there are certainly many wicked people who go to their graves never having paid for their violations of the right of others with anything other than a regular and painless death from simply just getting old.

    Aside from that, is there anything POSITIVE that we can take from what Hitler did? Has the human race learned any lessons from it? Have holocaust survivors made great contributions to the positive development of compassion, and the human spirit in overcoming unspeakable evil?

    ~PS

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